Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere!



Go Back   Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere! > Research > Research Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03-10-18, 22:40
Olde Crone Olde Crone is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,766
Default

You can't give masonic regalia away unless it is very special indeed, I have found. I once bought a huge box full at auction and eventually gave most of it to the charity shop.

OC
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 27-07-20, 14:39
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

Just been contacted by a descendant of the Handcuff Queen!

Turns out she was not Mary Jane Elizabeth, but the woman William George was shacked up with in 1911. Will tell more when I know it, but it sounds as if life was very different "from that of our own dear queen"
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 27-07-20, 14:44
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Curiouser and curiouser.

I've found an old note, saying that THIS is her death registration:

Deaths Mar 1931 (>99%)
Hawkins Edith 40 Camberwell 1d 1146

EDITH?!!!
The woman he took up with was Margary Edith
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 27-07-20, 18:45
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

Oh, wow! I have a cousin, I have a cousin!!!
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 28-07-20, 12:57
kiterunner's Avatar
kiterunner kiterunner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 25,270
Default

So William George was your actual relative? I've reread this thread but I'm still not sure!
__________________
KiteRunner

Family History News updated 29th Feb
Findmypast 1871 census update
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 28-07-20, 14:41
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

Yes. William George was my relation. The problem lay with his women.
He married the girl next door - Mary Jane Elizabeth Darling. She and baby Mabel are invisible in 1901.
Three boys are born during the early C20th, in Essex.
In 1911, Mary is in the workhouse in Essex.
Family story is that Mary turned up at her mother-in -law's house, with Mabel and her two surviving brothers in tow, saying she couldn't cope, and abandoning them.
Mabel is with her grandparents, Sidney in hospital in Portsmouth and Walter with his father, also in Portsmouth.
William describes himself as an advertising agent, and in the same household is Edith Batchelor, aged 22 and called a housemaid.

I knew that William took up with another woman, and had daughters Rose and Margary, but never correctly identified them. This is why:

Births Dec 1911
Hawkins Lady M B Batchelor Fulham 1a 554
Births Sep 1913
Hawkins Lady C B Batchelor Fulham 1a 570
Births Sep 1915
Hawkins Lady R E Batchelor Newcastle T. 10b 71

And these are the full entries:
HAWKINS, LADY CONSTANCE BELMONT BATCHELOR
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 570
HAWKINS, LADY MARJORY BELMONT BATCHELOR
GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 554
HAWKINS, LADY ROSAMOND ESTHER BATCHELOR
GRO Reference: 1915 S Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 71

Constance presumably died as a baby.

It was Edith Batchelor, with the stage name of Madge Belmont, who was the Handcuff Queen.

Two boys were born in Wales:

Births Jun 1920
Hawkins Squire J B Batchelor Pontypool 11a 434
Births Mar 1922
Hawkins Harold G Batchelor Merthyr T. 11a 1754

Allegedly there was a third brother, born in Newcastle, but no sign in civil registration.

It looks as if the boys of the first marriage settled at 144 Kilburn High Road. It was Sidney's address, although he died in Salford as well as Walter's when he married:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...Fedit%2Frecord


Now comes the puzzling bit. When William George dies in 1929, it sounds as if he is living in Juxon Street: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6redir%3Dfalse


The inquest report suggests he and his wife had been living together, possibly for the last couple of years:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/...awkins%20juxon


Mary takes her pound from the poorbox, discovers she's entitled to money from William's estate and the two sons who predecease her. She then vanishes.


It is not clear what has happened to Edith in the meanwhile, but she dies in 1931, aged 40.


My cousin is a descendant of Harold. While Rosamund and Margary appear to have been in close contact with each other, the boys were abandoned along the way. Harold was brought up in Hitchin, but treated so badly, he ran away. He completely lost contact with his family, but rediscovered them via Surprise Surprise.
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 28-07-20, 16:06
kiterunner's Avatar
kiterunner kiterunner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 25,270
Default

Amazing story, Phoenix.
__________________
KiteRunner

Family History News updated 29th Feb
Findmypast 1871 census update
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 28-07-20, 19:01
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

It has just got wierder. In 1928, 144 Kilburn High Road is home, amongst others, to Esther Batchelor, mother of the Handcuff Queen. How incestuous is that!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...9&pId=79757974
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 25-08-20, 23:19
Rkinley Rkinley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 1
Default

Hello. I hope you’re still using this site. I’m the great grand daughter of Madge Belmont. My nan was her daughter.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 26-08-20, 08:32
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,617
Default

Woooo!

Hello cousin! Welcome to the site! This is amazing. I'll pm you with my contact details.
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:08.


Hosted by Photon IT

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 PL3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.