Help needed - Genealogists' Forum

Norseman · #1 27-08-19, 06:48

Hi!
My name is Svein Korsvold. I am doing Research for a book on Thomas William Murray, born April 10 1889 in Preston UK. He was one of the first Marconists. Employed by the Marconi Company in 1911. Sailed as a Wireless operator during WW1. Moved to the US around 1920. Worked for the Federal Government as an undercover agent against the mafia. Witness in the case against Mafia boss Johnny Torrio in NY in 1939. In December 1939 he takes a job as a radio operator on the Norwegian ship Songa. They are torpedoed outside Ireland on January 22. The crew is taken to Norway, where he, after the invasion on April 9, helps Norwegian resistance with transmissions to the UK. He Escapes to Shetland in early July, and in 1941 he is recruited by the MI6. He died in 1949.
This is all documented, but need help on the following matters:

1. Before joining the Marconi company in 1911 he worked in India according to himself. Employed by the Government.Stationed at Montgomery in the Scinde district. Where can I find additional information, and is it possible du find out when he left the UK, and when he returned?

2. After he escaped Norway in 1940 we think he went to Australia for a few months before joining the MI6. Can anyone help with ship and departure date?

3. Finally: According to information we got he taught wireless at the Curragh Army camp at a very young age. In what archive can I find further proof on this matter?

Thank you in advance!
Svein Korsvold
Bergen, Norway

Merry · #2 27-08-19, 07:58

I know this is not what you are asking about, but we need to make sure we are looking at the right person as the name Thomas Murray isn't uncommon.

Birth registration:

MURRAY, THOMAS WILLIAM
mother's maiden surname PARK
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 596

Parents marriage:

Marriages Jun 1888
Murray John Preston 8e 881
PARK Sarah Preston 8e 881

1891 Census:
163 Ribbleton Lane Preston:

John Murray head married 25 pavior and drainer born Lancashire Pendleton
Sarah Murray wife married 27 born Lancashire Preston
Thos W Murray son single 2 born Lancashire Preston
Winifred Murray dau single 4 months born Lancashire Preston

1901 Census
32 Everton Gardens Preston:

John Murray head married 35 pavior and drainer born Lancs Pendleton
Sarah Murray wife married 37 born Lancs Preston
Thomas Murray son 11 born Lancs Preston
Winifred Murray dau 11 born Lancs Preston
Margaret M Murray 8 born Lancs Preston
Isabella T Murray 4 born Lancs Preston

By 1911 Sarah had died:

Deaths Jun 1902

Murray Sarah 39 Preston 8e 367

and John was living with his unmarried sister. John said he and Sarah had 8 children, four of whom were still living at the date of the 1911 census. None of the four are with him in 1911.

I can't see any ship passenger list entry between 1901 and 1911 for this Thomas travelling to India. There are a few shortly after 1911 but where occupation is mentioned they don't sound like him at all (jute worker).

In 1911 there's a private in the army stationed at either Egypt, Sierra Leone, South Africa or Sudan named Thomas Murray aged 23 born Preston and another man, same age and birthplace, boarding in Kirkham Lancashire who is a coachman. If he was in India at this date then neither of these men are him.

This is definitely the right man:

Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1918-1941

First name(s) Thomas William
Last name Murray
Event year 1918
Birth year 1889
Birth place Preston
Birth county/country Lancashire
Birth date 10 Apr 1889
Discharge number 908377
Identity certificate number 210235
Card type CR10
Archive The National Archives
Series BT350
Date range 1918-1921
BT350 Date range 1918-1921
Record set Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1918-1941
Category Education & work
Subcategory Merchant Navy & Maritime
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Merry · #3 27-08-19, 08:10

re your questions 2 and 3:

I can't see any passenger list entries for him between the UK and Australia within the dates you mention (these are the only records I have access to, but others may have more).

Re Curragh Army camp - Do you know if he was a civilian employed there? I have no idea whether any records survive, but you could try the military archives in Dublin - they might have some general information:

Officer In Charge
Military Archives
Cathal Brugha Bks
Rathmines
Dublin 6
Ireland

Norseman · #4 27-08-19, 11:11

Thank you!
He was indeed the son of John and Sarah.
We got his records from MI6 as well as the Marconi Company. First wife, Agnes, and children lost contact with him when he worked for the Federal Government in the US in the 1930s. They did't know what happened to him until our research revealed his whereabouts in Bergen, Norway in 1940. We also found that he married again in the UK during the war. New wife: Dorothy inman. We got his medal cards etc from KEW. Do you think he has any living family in the UK, and what happened to his new wife after his death in 1949?
Thank you for Your time!
Regards
Svein Korsvold

kiterunner · #5 27-08-19, 13:08

This is the probate info from 1949:
MURRAY Thomas William of 22 Westbury-grove Leeds 10 died 27 May 1949 at St James Hospital Leeds 9 Administration Wakefield 15 July to Dorothy Murray widow. Effects £474 18s 10d.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk...age=6#calendar

Norseman · #6 27-08-19, 13:33

That is correct. We have got a copy of the Death certificate.
Any information appreciated!
Svein

kiterunner · #7 27-08-19, 13:41

I don't know whether you have seen this family tree on ancestry?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...39863711/facts

If not, then it might be worth you contacting the tree owner.

That tree shows the second marriage as 1 Nov 1944 Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, which doesn't quite fit with Thomas William Murray / Dorothy Inman or Loomes, Jan-Mar 1944 North Bucks, but I wonder whether they meant 11 Jan 1944 and ancestry has misunderstood a date of 1/11/1944 written in the American way? Anyway, unfortunately the tree doesn't give any info on the second wife, but I should think this is the correct marriage.

Dorothy Loomes married Joseph W Inman in 1932, Wakefield district, Yorkshire, and this is her on the 1939 Register:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

21 Westbury Terr, Leeds
Henry Loomes born 9 Jul 1873
Martha Loomes born 14 Oct 1873
Wilfred Loomes born 9(?) Dec 1911
Dorothy Inman born 24 Apr 1903. Inman is crossed out and Murray written in.

There is a death for Dorothy Murray Jul 1990 Leeds, date of birth 24 Apr 1903. I can't find a probate entry for her, and it doesn't look as though she had any children, or at least not born in England and Wales.

Macbev · #8 27-08-19, 13:42

can see only one Thomas Murray entering Australia in the time frame suggested....from Genoa. https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...B=12135672&S=7

Norseman · #9 27-08-19, 14:20

From The World's News in Sydney Australia 15 February 1941:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139904471
We know he arrived at Lerwick, Shetland on July 3 1940. Previous in the same year he was on the Songa, and in Bergen.
On June 28 1941 he signed on With the MI6. He probably went to Australia somewhere between those two dates. Maybe as radio operator on a ship, or as an ordinary passenger.
Your effort is much appreciated!
Regards
Svein Korsvold

kiterunner · #10 27-08-19, 15:22

This isn't one of the dates you are looking for, but he does mention the Huayna in that article - a crew list from 1913:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...=successSource

Liverpool to Iquitos. The ship's doctor seems to have survived the voyage though.

T W Murray, age 25, born Preston, home address Baltic Villa, Sandy Rd, Seaforth. Telegraphist. The previous ship is hard to make out - possibly Eugenia?