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Old 10-03-14, 16:48
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Default The said James Bagwell

The will of Mary Bagwell, widow, of Peckham in the parish of Camberwell, Surrey, was written in 1764 and proved by the PCC in 1770:
PCC will of Mary Bagwell

She was nee Mary Cooper and she married Peter Bagwell 15 Jun 1699 at St James Clerkenwell, London. They had at least 5 children: Sarah (who married Robert Gibbs 7 Feb 1722 at All Hallows London Wall); Mary; John; Martha (who married Richard Avery 20 Feb 1734 at St Katherine by the Tower); Katherine / Catherine (who married John Tew 25 Feb 1734 at All Hallows London Wall). These children were mentioned in the will of their grandfather John Cooper which was signed on the 25th Jul 1713 but there could be some more who were born after that.

On line 12 of page 2 of Mary's will is a mention of "my grandson Peter Bagwell" and then on lines 17/18 "the said James Bagwell". There is also a mention of James's children John and Mary Bagwell. But I can't see where the original mention of James Bagwell is. Is it there and I'm just missing it? I think these people were non-conformists and I haven't got baptisms for any of them, and I'm trying to figure out where James and Peter fit in.

I found the will of a John Bagwell from 1763 but he doesn't mention any children, only his wife Mary. And Peter Bagwell's will proved 1785 only mentions his wife Elizabeth. There is a likely marriage for Peter and Elizabeth in 1766 with James Bagwell as one of the witnesses.
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Old 10-03-14, 17:28
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Ever since I got a PCC will where the widow of the dec'd was named as Frances in one instance (correct) and Thomas in another (definitely wrong!) I am left constantly wondering how many other mistakes are hiding that we might not recognise!

You are quite right that James doesn't get a mention before he becomes "the said James Bagwell". Before I read on I wondered if he was the only child of Peter and had been named as such before a helpful solicitor had come along and pointed out Peter could have more children, however unlikely, so that part of the will was re-written to reflect that potential situation, but "the said" was not changed, in error. However, when I realised James was an adult with children himself, I thought it was pushing things for Mary Bagwell to have great-great-grandchildren even if she was quite elderly, so dismissed that idea!
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Old 10-03-14, 17:43
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James was a witness at Peter's wedding in 1766, Merry, if I have the right wedding for Peter.
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Old 10-03-14, 17:54
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My guess is they are either brother's or first cousins, but that's not much help! lol
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Old 10-03-14, 18:04
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Martha Avery's will from 1777 mentions "Elizabeth Wilton formerly the wife of my late nephew James Bagwell", "my nephew Peter Bagwell", "my niece Elizabeth Bagwell wife of my nephew Peter Bagwell", "my niece Mary Bagwell" and "my nephew John Bagwell" so that doesn't help much either as she doesn't say who their father was / fathers were, plus I don't know whether John and Mary are the same John and Mary mentioned in Mary Bagwell's will, and if so, whether they are really Martha's niece and nephew or if she is using the terms loosely and they are great-niece and great-nephew!
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Old 10-03-14, 18:32
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This is what you need to put a bag of frozen peas on your head and have a lie down!
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Old 10-03-14, 19:03
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Sarah Gibbs' will written 1780 and proved 1782 mentions nephew Peter Bagwell, niece Elizabeth Bagwell, Peter's wife, nephew John Bagwell.
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Old 10-03-14, 20:24
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It might be worth contacting TNA for a quote on the original will, rather than the registered copy. It may be that the copyist has omitted a line.
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Old 10-03-14, 22:35
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Thanks, Phoenix.
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Old 11-03-14, 11:45
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I just have to crow about this somewhere! What I was most hoping to find by tracing the Bagwells was a clue to the maiden name of Mary's mother. But I've just re-read the will of John Cooper (Mary's father) and it mentions "the last will and testament of my late wife Sarah Cooper", so I've found that, and it mentions "my late honoured father Mr Abraham Graves" and "my late honoured mother Mrs Sarah Graves"! If only everyone had been so thoughtful when writing their wills!
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