Two matching wives?

[Merry]

Thomas Grout's children bap at Enfield (mother Susannah):

Martha 1802

Thomas 1803

James 1805

Mary 1808

Charles 1811

Jane 1813

I would imagine Mary who was witness to the marriage in 1842 would probably not be the one b 1808 as the chances are she would be married by then (to Peregrine?)

[Merry]

Another LMA marriage...

It's the same date in 1842 as the one I posted between Charles Grout and Ann Garrett (so a double wedding or one after the other?)

This time we have James Grout, saddler of Enfield, son of Thomas Grout, saddler (so brother to the other groom), marrying Margaret Purvis (the witness from the oter marriage. She is dau of Thomas Purvis bootmaker.

Witnesses are Thomas Purvis (bride's father?)
Thomas Grout (groom's father?)
Jane Winch (?)
Isabella Shaw (?)

Please could someone look at these two marriages and tell me if the witness I've written down for this last marriage as Thomas Grout and the witness I've written down as ?? Grout (looks like Mrs Grout - the same sig as on the 1832 marriage for Peregrine H Purvis) for the other marriage on the same day between Charles Grout and Ann Garrett (indexed as Garrell) are actually the same signature?!!!

[Asa]

That is definitely the same - and when you look at the 1832 signature with that knowledge, it's clear that it's Thos.

[Merry]

I am getting a headache now..........James Grout and Margaret Purvis have a dau Margaret Purvis Grout. Margaret P Grout marries Charles Purvis, making herself Margaret Purvis Purvis! lol

Charles Purvis is from Deptford and I have photos of Deptford Grouts. I can't see how I am related to any of these people and am wondering now where this album actually came from? Maybe frommy great-great-aunt who worked for Peregrine Purvis junr. When she died her stuff may have gone to her brother, my great-grandfather. Hmmm......so she had an album of her employers family mixed up with her own?

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Asa

That is definitely the same - and when you look at the 1832 signature with that knowledge, it's clear that it's Thos.

Thank you very much Asa!

I am quite liking this family, even if they are not mine (well one Grout did marry my Smith, so I can say their is a little tie and they probably all knew each other). Some of the mid Victorian photos are pretty scary, esp the women! lol

Do you know the era? Can you post them Merry? Some one might be delighted to claim them?

[Merry]

There's about 80 named ones and about the same unnamed, but I've only scanned about 6 so far! The era is mainly 1860s-1890s I guess, with a very few around 1900ish too.

Also, there's a few pages that are famous people (well, I recognise Queen Victoria , Florence Nightingale, Tennyson and Dickens!) and a lot of men with dog collars and some slightly dubious looking women who may be actresses, all of which look like the sorts of photos that were probably sold to the public. I've not tried to extract them from the album, because I don't think they will be named, coz they woz famous at the time! lol

Actually, I'm now wondering about a project to create a photobucket album of them all. My cousin in the States has another of these albums but she won't get it out of her loft, but tells me there is a photo of my great-granny who spent 20 years in an asylum in it. Perhaps if I were to show her what's in my albums - not that she is into FH but she might like to see the photos - she might, or her daughter might, be inspired to climb the ladder?!!

You have got me thinking now, Julie........thanks

[samesizedfeet]

I have 3 families that constantly intermarried to keep their money in one place - they'd use cousins, sisters, uncles, aunts, whatever they could find. They are called Crew, Smith and Boulcott. Although as you get further down the tree they are Xxx Boulcott Crew, Xxx Crew Smith, Xxxx Crew Boulcott. Xxxx Boulcott Crew Smith..... you get the picture.

It's a tentative connection as John Crew Smith Dalton married my 5x gt grandmother's half sister - but they're a very interesting family once you get into them. JCS Dalton's mother was a Crew who fell out with her siblings over their father's money after she went to Buenos Aires. She claimed half the father's butcher's empire on his death as her 3 sisters had died childless so her brother William pulled down half the butchers shop and told her that was her half gone. I have the court papers about the dispute. Very good reading.

[Merry]

I have just discovered the tiny link between this 'new' family and my own isn't what I thought (see boring thread here: http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum...238#post120238 )

But I think I may plough on with them as I may discover the missing link later and it would be very frustrating to have to make all these discoveries again! lol

Zoe, your lot sound very interesting, especially the court case........

[Jenthec]

Hello Merry. I've just joined this group tonight so that I could reply to you. I am a descendant of the Grout family and have much of this info and might be able to help you a little with some of the details. Peregrine's 1st wife Mary 1 was the daughter of Thomas Grout and Susannah Clark. The second wife Mary 2 was the daughter of Thomas' brother William Grout and Ann Bentiman. Both Mary's were born in 1808 and they were cousins. For more confusion, Peregrine Hogg Purvis had 2 sons named Peregrine, one with each wife. So we presume the first one, born 1834, died before the second one was born in 1845. I can't yet be certain of date of Mary 1's death or the 1st son Peregrine. Hope this helps for starters.... Jenthec