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  #11  
Old 04-12-20, 17:04
RForbes RForbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiterunner View Post
There is a Helen Forbes death with MMN Miller, 1864, age 55, but the district is Latheron, so seems unlikely to be the right person unless she had family in that area.
So you inspired me to take another (god knows how many times I've done this) search for a death record. Latheron is too far... but Port Glasglow is not.

Thank you!!

In a surprising twist of fate, there is a match for Helen from the Scottish death records.

I would really appreciate the assistance of genealogists here in trying to transcribe parts of the death record - especially the maiden name of Helen's mother (which baffles me), and confirmation of Andrew's occupation.

I probably never looked at this entry before because:
  • The age is off again, her actual birth year is now somewhere between 1788-1810.
  • The mother's maiden name is strangely formatted as "Homes (?) Miller."
  • I never expected Helen would live long enough to follow her niece and the Russell family from Paisley to Northern Ireland and then back to Port Glasgow. It seemed like an unlikely journey.

But it is a match:
  • Father is Andrew Forbes, mother is Agnes (Miller sp?) Forbes - consistent with my original theory, in spite of a birth record.
  • Helen lived with her niece and I know her niece moved to Northern Ireland in the 1870s and moved to Port Glasgow specifically sometime between 1878 and 1881. So this would explain why Helen does not appear in the 1871 Scottish Census as she likely lived in Northern Ireland, but died in Port Glasgow after returning back.
  • The location of Helen's death is the Port Glasgow Saw Mills on Brown St, where her nephew-in-law worked as a commercial clerk. In the 1881 Census, Helen's niece and the rest of the family (Russells) continue to reside at Brown St.

YIPPIE!!!



Quote:
Helen Forbes
(Single)

1879
October
Twentieth
7h 30m 10m (?)

Saw mills
Brown street
Port Glasgow



F, 91 year

Andrew Forbes
Clothier
(Deceased)

Agnes Forbes
MN. Holme (???) Miller

Exhaustion
--??
--??
???


? McK--?
Proprietor

1879
October 21
at Port Glasgow
??, Registrar
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  #12  
Old 04-12-20, 17:36
Olde Crone Olde Crone is online now
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Exhaustion.
(Great? from?) Old age.
Dropsy 10 days.

Walter Blackwood, proprietor.

Wm Smith, registrar.

I agree with your other interpretations.

OC
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  #13  
Old 04-12-20, 18:07
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kiterunner kiterunner is offline
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I saw that one in the index when I was searching but I ruled it out because of the age and the MMN!

The time of death is 7 h 30 m PM. And for mother's maiden name the abbreviation is MS (i.e. maiden surname). I would say the cause of death is given as Exhaustion from Old Age, dropsy 10 days, as cert by Jas Greeve, LRCP Ed.
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  #14  
Old 04-12-20, 21:01
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Agree with OC and Kite.

Maiden surname isn't clear enough for me to guess that first word with any certainty. It looks like Hol [three minims] s so Holms??
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  #15  
Old 04-12-20, 21:11
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Mary from Italy Mary from Italy is offline
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I think it's Holms Miller.

I was wondering if Agnes had maybe been married twice.

The only possibility I've found so far for a first marriage is a bit tenuous, and I don't have any credits for ScotlandsPeople to check:

an Elisabeth Holm married Robert ___ in Port Glasgow in 1775. Maybe too early?

I can't remember if the names Agnes and Elisabeth are interchangeable in Scotland.

I had a quick look for a possible baptism for Helen to Agnes prior to her marriage to Andrew, but didn't find anything.

Last edited by Mary from Italy; 04-12-20 at 21:57.
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  #16  
Old 04-12-20, 22:02
Olde Crone Olde Crone is online now
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No, it's Isabel and Elizabeth that are interchangeable in Scotland, but Elizabeth could still be Agnes's mother.I

OC
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  #17  
Old 05-12-20, 08:32
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Agnes is Nancy and Jessie is Janet.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-20, 01:10
RForbes RForbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary from Italy View Post
I think it's Holms Miller.

I was wondering if Agnes had maybe been married twice.

The only possibility I've found so far for a first marriage is a bit tenuous, and I don't have any credits for ScotlandsPeople to check:

an Elisabeth Holm married Robert ___ in Port Glasgow in 1775. Maybe too early?

I can't remember if the names Agnes and Elisabeth are interchangeable in Scotland.

I had a quick look for a possible baptism for Helen to Agnes prior to her marriage to Andrew, but didn't find anything.
I appreciate everyone's help in this thread, especially with the transcribing. Thank you so much everyone. You guys are amazing.

I like your theory that Agnes may have remarried, I also wonder if Holm(s) may be her mother's name.

Holms/Holm/Holmes appears to have been a fairly common last name in Renfrewshire.

There is a Miller-Holm marriage at the right timeline and a reasonable location for Agnes (Holm, Miller) Forbes' parents:
Millar, William, par. of Lochwinnoch, and Agnes Holms
... Mary, born 29-31 Mar. 1754
https://tango.byu.edu/data/KilbarchanParish.pdf
And an Agnes Miller also married William Holm in 1814 in Houston and had four childern (George, William, Janet, Agnes), which could be remarriage. Agnes' age varies in the different censuses varies, but I think she's about ten years too young to be the right Agnes.
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  #19  
Old 08-12-20, 13:28
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back to your original question any cms under 7 are not considered reliable and I've been told to ignore them by a professional genetic genealogist. There is a chance that it might be a true relationship but you can't know for sure at that number.
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  #20  
Old 08-12-20, 18:09
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I have some smallish matches (around 6 cM) where there's a very good paper trail, so I'm assuming those are valid.
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