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  #61  
Old 02-08-22, 18:16
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Do you mean the children of Thomas Bray and Mary Vice? The other three were all girls.

I think Thomas Bray had a son Thomas with his first wife, Elizabeth Green.
Yes, Thomas jr was baptised 10 Nov 1730, son of Thomas and Elizabeth
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  #62  
Old 02-08-22, 21:21
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Originally Posted by Merry View Post
Do you mean the children of Thomas Bray and Mary Vice? The other three were all girls.

I think Thomas Bray had a son Thomas with his first wife, Elizabeth Green.
[QUOTE]

A son of that marriage would have been born before 1744, but could well be the one marrying Elizabeth Olson in 1784. That would have made him an uncle of JB the silkman, which also makes sense.
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  #63  
Old 02-08-22, 21:42
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The Thomas who married in 1784 was a bachelor (from the marriage allegation) and the son of Thomas and Eliz would be aged well into his 50s. Fairly unusual for a first marriage. Not impossible of courseā€¦.
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  #64  
Old 02-08-22, 23:10
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I have found one or probably two other branches of the Bray clan that held its baptisms at St. Michael, Stoke, with parents also named Thomas and Elizabeth Bray.

There is a record for a Thomas Bray, with parents T&EB, who was baptised on 15 July 1756, and a likely burial record in Bedworth in 1840, for a TB aged 86. Since the daughters of the TB who married Elizabeth Olson lived at Bedworth, I think this is probably the one who married Elizabeth Olson in 1784.

There were 9 Bray children baptised at Stoke between 1760 (Elizabeth) and 1776 (Lydia) with parents named T&EB. Sadly, one of those, baptised in 1766 was also named Thomas, and in my search that baptism was somehow linked to a burial of a TB in 1767. That may be an error, since another TB was buried that year, but it is hard to imagine that that this T&EB named another child Thomas if they were also the parents of the one born in 1756 and still living.

Without the extra TB baptised in 1766, I would have concluded that the TB born in 1730 (son of TB the butcher and Elizabeth Green) married another Elizabeth and was the father of all those children. That would easily bridge the 57 year gap.

But that extra record for the 1766 baptism casts doubt that line of argument, and suggests that there were two couples with the same names having the children baptised in the same church.

I realize this is a particularly circuitous rabbit hole, and that chasing down the TB connections does nothing to advance my main goal of tracing ancestors. But the lack of clarity is frustrating. However, maybe we should let it go for now.
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  #65  
Old 03-08-22, 07:21
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chasing down the TB connections does nothing to advance my main goal of tracing ancestors.
I don't really agree with that - it is often vital to map the complete jigsaw puzzle of family members to be certain (or more certain!) that you have your direct line correct. Creating a tree that encompasses all the individuals of a particular surname in a particular area and time fame can be very satisfying - You may also discover unexpected links between twigs of the tree that you would never have known about if you had persued your direct line only. I thnk one of the reasons so many online trees are lacking in accuracy is because the tree owner has not done this, being blinkered to their own direct line.

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But the lack of clarity is frustrating. However, maybe we should let it go for now.
Surely the lack of clarity is what makes it interesting?! However, I agree that once you start to feel bogged down it may be better to move on to something different for a while. As long as you record everything you know or suspect so you can pick it up another time!
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  #66  
Old 03-08-22, 08:04
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There were 9 Bray children baptised at Stoke between 1760 (Elizabeth) and 1776 (Lydia) with parents named T&EB. Sadly, one of those, baptised in 1766 was also named Thomas
I agree about nine baptisms between those dates for the children of T&EB. However, I don't see a Thomas?

Elizabeth 1760
Easter 1762
Jonathan 1765
Nathan 1765
John 1767
Elizabeth 1769
Richard 1772
James 1774
Lydia 1776

There is a Thomas Bray bap in 1766 but his parents are Jonathan and Elizabeth.

I would think

Mary 1754
Thomas 1756
William 1758

are also children of the same T&EB as the only marriage for a T to an E in these years is this one:

Name: Thomas Bray
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 25 Oct 1753
Marriage Place: Holy Trinity,Coventry,Warwick,England
Spouse:
Elizabeth Collier

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Without the extra TB baptised in 1766, I would have concluded that the TB born in 1730 (son of TB the butcher and Elizabeth Green) married another Elizabeth and was the father of all those children. That would easily bridge the 57 year gap.
So, as there doesn't seem to be a bap in 1766 (I did look through the PR images for the whole year) your original assumption would appear to be correct
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  #67  
Old 03-08-22, 15:56
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Originally Posted by Merry View Post

There is a Thomas Bray bap in 1766 but his parents are Jonathan and Elizabeth.
OK - I see that now. I also now see the marriage of a TB to Elizabeth Collier - at Holy Trinity not at Stoke.

It is a only a small leap of faith (and one consistent with the principle of Occam's razor) to identify this TB with the one baptised on 10 Nov 1730, and that would make the TB Senior on the 1821 Lease and Release a first cousin of JB the silkmercer.

I appreciate your sympathetic comments about the lack of clarity being a motivating force.

I have also located a family tree on https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pe...scape/MJSD-XYC which deals with the marriage of TB to Mary Vice. I plan to see if I can add to it, based on the research covered in this thread.
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