Q about C of E vicars

[Mary from Italy]

Originally Posted by Merry

Mary, I added the brother of Elizabeth Grout to my tree yesterday (Joseph 1816), but hadn't researched him yet. OH will want him to be a relative if he was a cricketer! lol

Here you go:

Name: Joseph Grout Williams
College: TRINITY
Entered: Michs. 1868
Born: 1848
More Information: Adm. pens. at TRINITY, July 15, 1867. [Eldest] s. of [the Rev.] James (1832), of [Pendley manor], Tring, Herts. (and Elizabeth, dau. of James Grout). B. [June 16], 1848, at Pendley manor. School, Harrow. Matric. Michs. 1868. Of Pendley manor. Captain, Herts. Militia, 1871-85. J.P. for Herts. and Bucks.; High Sheriff of Herts., 1889. Married, Oct. 16, 1878, Catherine M., dau. of Robert Tidswell, of Seymour House, Denmark Hill, Surrey. Died Oct. 9, 1923. (Harrow Sch. Reg.; Burke, L.G.; Walford, County Families; The Times, Oct. 11, 1923.)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...28ae95de4cafe9

I think this is the same person:


http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/...yer/13942.html

[Merry]

Thanks Mary. That all fits perfectly.

[Jenthec]

Amazing bits of info making a good picture of this group (family?). As I understand Joseph Grout (of Tring Manor but not an owner) made his money a few ways - some big canal was built linking London with northern industrial towns?? As I understand he had shares in that, also in Great ?? Railway. He was also possibly the Joseph Grout of Grout/Bayliss Crape (crepe) Mills of Enfield. Apparently there was a big market in crepe - Victorian era? lots of mourning, everything covered in black crepe material, including hearses, curtains, clothing etc. There was a Court Case where a former partner was accused of not paying up. Here is a link to a portrait http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpainti...-18071852-2079 Jenthec

[Jenthec]

Re Joseph Grout: Found this online "From European Magazine & London Review, Vol 80 p. 1281 New Applications for Patents - The London Markets
Joseph Grout of Gutter-Lane, Cheapside, London Crape Manufacturer, for a new manufacture of crape. Dated Nov 13, 1821" I think this could be Joseph Grout later of Tring Park. Jenthec

[HarrysMum]

Possible the Great Western Railway, Jenthec.

Merry...they may have spoken to the Ariels or even the Clarks......lol

[Jenthec]

Joseph Grout jnr (b. abt 1817) is on 1861 Census as visitor at Tring Park with wife Maria and son Joseph Osborn Grout. If correct, Joseph Grout, son of James, married Maria Isabella Hippisley at Hove, Sussex on 19 Aug 1856 (IGI record). 1871 Census Joseph and Maria are living at Braughing. Elizabeth and Joseph's sister Harriet (living with Joseph snr in 1841) married William Banbury in 1845 at Tring. I think he was also very wealthy, he and son both Bankers. In 1891 Harriet was living at 60 Eaton Place, St George Hanover Square with husband William, visitor Mary Galloway and 11 servants. Even we Aussies know St George Hanover Sq is 'top' address!! Their father James Grout died 1840 but I can't find any details of wife Mary's death - another Mary Grout (nee Prentice).... Jen

[Jenthec]

Merry - you want a cricketer for OH?? What about Wally Grout, wicketkeeper for Australia?? We always claimed him as a relative when we were kids but no proof?? Then again OH might not want an Aussie cricketer in the family??? Often wondered about Graham Gooch (England Captain??) as there are lots of Gooches in the family also.... just for fun.. Jen

[HarrysMum]

Originally Posted by Jenthec

Merry - you want a cricketer for OH?? What about Wally Grout, wicketkeeper for Australia?? We always claimed him as a relative when we were kids but no proof?? Then again OH might not want an Aussie cricketer in the family??? Often wondered about Graham Gooch (England Captain??) as there are lots of Gooches in the family also.... just for fun.. Jen

I saw Wally Grout make 100 at the Gabba when I was a wee little thing. My uncle knew him quite well...

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Grouts of crepe fame had mills at Great Yarmouth and Ditchingham; I THINK they may also have had business connections with Norwich.

Jay

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Jenthec

Joseph Grout of Gutter-Lane, Cheapside, London Crape Manufacturer, for a new manufacture of crape. Dated Nov 13, 1821" I think this could be Joseph Grout later of Tring Park. Jenthec

Yes, that's the same man.

Originally Posted by HarrysMum

Merry...they may have spoken to the Ariels or even the Clarks......lol

lol Libby!!

Originally Posted by Jenthec

Joseph Grout jnr (b. abt 1817) is on 1861 Census as visitor at Tring Park with wife Maria and son Joseph Osborn Grout. If correct, Joseph Grout, son of James, married Maria Isabella Hippisley at Hove, Sussex on 19 Aug 1856 (IGI record). 1871 Census Joseph and Maria are living at Braughing. Elizabeth and Joseph's sister Harriet (living with Joseph snr in 1841) married William Banbury in 1845 at Tring. I think he was also very wealthy, he and son both Bankers. In 1891 Harriet was living at 60 Eaton Place, St George Hanover Square with husband William, visitor Mary Galloway and 11 servants. Even we Aussies know St George Hanover Sq is 'top' address!!.... Jen

Yep, I agree with all that!

Originally Posted by Jenthec

Their father James Grout died 1840 but I can't find any details of wife Mary's death - another Mary Grout (nee Prentice).... Jen

Mary Prentice died 16th Nov 1862 at The Mount Braughing (Essex Standard 26th Nov 1862). I have a photo of several gravestones at Braughing churchyard including hers.

Originally Posted by Jenthec

Merry - you want a cricketer for OH?? What about Wally Grout, wicketkeeper for Australia?? We always claimed him as a relative when we were kids but no proof?? Then again OH might not want an Aussie cricketer in the family??? Often wondered about Graham Gooch (England Captain??) as there are lots of Gooches in the family also.... just for fun.. Jen

lolol!! I don't have any Gooches in mine as far as I know. My bro-in-law would turn in his grave if I was related to an Aussie cricketer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Janet in Yorkshire

Grouts of crepe fame had mills at Great Yarmouth and Ditchingham; I THINK they may also have had business connections with Norwich.

Jay

Yes, they are all the same people. I think Joseph Grouts two main partners were his brother William and John Baylis. Also James Baylis and John Brown (Brown may have been a realtive of Joseph Grout's mother Sarah Brown). The company was worth about £127,000 in 1830 (Vol 32 Reports of cases argued in the English courts)

I think Joseph Grout's wife MAY have been widow Elizabeth Miller. There is a marriage (by licence) at St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney on 1st Sept 1801 and one of the witnesses is a Brown (Eleanor). The groom is described as 'of St John's Hackney'. I don't know if they had any children, but apparently none surviving.