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Old 04-08-12, 20:01
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Default John Horner

Name - "official" name and what they were known as John Horner
Date and place of birth About 1752, place unknown
Names of parents Don't know
Date and place of baptism - if applicable Not found
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
29 Sep 1778 St Mary's, Leyton, Essex, to Charlotte Sweatman
About 1789-1790 to Elizabeth Unknown
Occupation(s) - if any Farmer
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!). Leytonstone / Low Leyton, Essex
Date, place and cause of death May 1822 Leytonstone, Essex, not got cause
Date and place of burial. 16 May 1822 All Saints, West Ham, in the Horner family vault, age 69.
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable Will signed 16 Oct 1820, proved 30 May 1822 London, executors wife Elizabeth Horner and friend Richard James, farmer, also of Leytonstone.
Memorial inscription - if any Not found

Link to wife's thread: Elizabeth Unknown

Link to daughter's thread: Jane Horner

I'm just wondering whether it's possible to find out who else is buried in the Horner family vault as that might tell me who his relatives were. I mean his parents or siblings - I have info on his second wife's burial and some of his children etc who were buried there. But I suppose it could be that he was the one who first purchased the vault?
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Old 05-08-12, 10:04
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There are a few Horners on the NBI3 at All Saints.

Do you want them?

If so pm your email addy. I don't seem to have it.
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Old 14-12-13, 18:26
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Hmm, this is weird. A while ago I found what I thought was John's second marriage transcribed on FamilySearch - John Horner married Elizabeth Day 17 Dec 1789 at Waltham Holy Cross, Essex. Unfortunately something funny had happened with FamilySearch's indexing of the Essex parish registers whereby a lot of the grooms were shown with marital status of "married", so I had to wait until SEAX launched their online parish register images to find out that the John Horner on that marriage was a bachelor, of this parish, and that the marriage was by banns, and therefore I could rule this marriage out.

(John's first wife Charlotte was buried 2 Aug 1789 and his first child by Elizabeth was baptised 3 Oct 1790, so there is a pretty small window for the marriage to Elizabeth, and the date of this would have fitted pretty well.)

But, now I have my John's signature from his son's wedding and does anyone else think it looks very similar to the signature from the Waltham Holy Cross wedding, or am I clutching at straws here? (I don't have his signature from his first marriage yet because I am still waiting for SEAX to put the Leyton PR's online, think they said before the end of this year.) FamilySearch doesn't seem to have any baptisms at Waltham Holy Cross for the children of this couple, but I will have a look through the SEAX images to see if I can find any in there.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg john horner witness sig.jpg (5.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg john horner groom sig.jpg (5.4 KB, 6 views)
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Old 14-12-13, 19:06
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I think they look very similar - the small h with no loop, the o not completely circular in John.

How many years apart are they?
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Old 14-12-13, 19:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
I think they look very similar - the small h with no loop, the o not completely circular in John.

How many years apart are they?
About 13 years apart.

It's so annoying that there is no banns register available for the date of this marriage!
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Old 14-12-13, 22:49
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Don't ask why, but bachelor is sometimes used as "free to marry". You might ask why bother to give status at all in that case. But those signatures look remarkably similar.
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Old 15-12-13, 02:24
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Pretty definitely the same hand if you ask me, Kite.
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Old 15-12-13, 11:06
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Thanks, everyone. It's not just the bachelor status that seems wrong, but also "of this parish". I know that sometimes people stayed in another parish for a few weeks before marrying to avoid having to have the banns called in two parishes or having to pay for a licence, but that doesn't seem a likely explanation for my John Horner.
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Old 15-12-13, 12:23
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There is such a short window of opportunity between death of first wife and marriage to second.

Do you suppose that either he had abandoned first wife/been having an affair/knew the bishop?

People would go to extraordinary lengths not to let the neighbours get a whiff of a marriage.
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Old 15-12-13, 12:35
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I'm pretty sure he hadn't abandoned his first wife but I guess the other two are possible. I'm sure that he did marry his Elizabeth because his children and grandchildren seem to have spent a lot of time going to court to dispute various legacies, and I'm sure that if any of his children were illegitimate, this would have been brought up in one of the cases!
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