Where was Joseph Alfred Hiron / Isles in 1851? - Page 2 - Genealogists' Forum

James18 · #11 16-12-15, 17:40

She's Eliza Hiron in 1871, widow of the aforementioned Joseph Alfred Hiron. At that point she's living with her son and her in-laws.

In 1841 she's 1 year old in Henbury, living with parents Thomas & Ann.

In 1851 she's 10 years old in Henbury, living with parents Thomas & Anelia (Ann).

I can't find anything for 1861. She didn't marry Joseph until 1868, so she should be Eliza Phillips.

Merry · #12 16-12-15, 18:57

The trouble is, if she is a servant somewhere and her age and/or birthplace have been guessed then she might become invisible.

anne fraser · #13 16-12-15, 19:33

Remember a lot of Bristol comes under Somerset.

James18 · #14 27-08-17, 01:30

No need to read through all this as it hasn't been the subject of discussion here before. I'm trying to find where Eliza Phillips came from, and specifically where her birth registration is.

I'll list what I have here, as that would seem the easiest thing to do:

1841
1851
1861
1871

birth (currently... but I'm thinking this is probably wrong)
baptism (I think; only found this today)
marriage
death

The 1840 birth registration I've had for her so far has mmn Bryant, but I believe Henbury and Compton-Greenfield should both be in the Clifton district, so I am now doubting myself.

I'm also intrigued by the older sister, Louisa Phillips, who appears on the 1841 census. I can't find a birth or baptism for her, and because I'm unable to find both sisters with the same mmn I'm wondering if I've made a mistake somewhere.

The other information I have for Eliza is correct and so her having the wrong birth wouldn't change anything (AFAIK) but of course it's always important to have the correct sources and so I wondered if someone could take a look for me.

Merry · #15 27-08-17, 08:22

You linked to the bap you found for Eliza in Compton Greenfield. There is this one too:

Louisa Philips bap 16 Dec 1838 Compton-Greenfield, Compton, Gloucestershire parents Thomas and Ann

I note that you are correct that Compton Greenfield and Henbury are in Clifton district at this time, but on the 1841 census Ancestry thinks Henbury is in Thornbury District which is wrong (correct for a few decades later!). Sometimes I get lazy and believe what Ancestry says

. This time I checked!!

As Louisa is a less common forename and there are no registrations at the right time listed as Female Phillips either then I don't think she is registered for birth. Quite likely Eliza isn't either.

Looking at marriages for Thomas Phi*s to Ann* around the right time, there is one to an Ann Powell in 1837 (wrong side of 1st July!) - I don't think this s the one as there is an Annette Emma Phillips mmn Powell born and died in Bristol District in (erm can't remember? 1839/40?) which is too close to the births of your Louisa/Eliza to fit. I also saw a marriage at the start of 1837 to an Ann Smith!! Of course that one is far more likely/difficult to prove!

Did you see that Thomas Phillips remarried in 1850 to Amelia Attwell(s). Though mmn Attwell was used on at least one of their children's births Amelia was a widow when she married Thomas and her father's name was Davis/Davies. I really should make a note of these things or give you a link! Thomas's father's first name was Philip. I did wonder if that was transcribed corrected, but haven't looked into it.

I do find that when you show us what info you have already by giving links without any written explanation I get very confused as I end up with so many open links I then can't find the one I need to look at. It also takes me a lot longer to work out what you are 'saying'!! So, I'm probably being equally annoying (!) by doing the opposite

It's not deliberate

I looked at Phillips/Smith births in Bristol and Clifton 1837-1846, but only found one match. That child (Emma Charlotte 1846) turned out to be the dau of Joseph Phillips and Charlotte Smith who married in 1839. Of course finding no other Phillips/Smith births proves nothing. Ann Smith might have been a widow in 1837. She might have had no children (etc etc), or she might be the person you are looking for!

When I do Ancestry searches in Gloucestershire I often get results in the Bristol, England, Select Church of England Parish Registers, 1720-1933. When I open the list it is often blank or has just a few entries compared with the number suggested. Does that happen to you too? It's been like that for me for at least a year - prob a lot longer.

Merry · #16 27-08-17, 08:31

This looks like the best fit for Ann's death:

PHILLIPS, ANN aged 26 GRO Reference 1842 S Quarter in THE CLIFTON UNION Volume 11 Page 231

kiterunner · #17 27-08-17, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry

When I do Ancestry searches in Gloucestershire I often get results in the Bristol, England, Select Church of England Parish Registers, 1720-1933. When I open the list it is often blank or has just a few entries compared with the number suggested. Does that happen to you too? It's been like that for me for at least a year - prob a lot longer.

I think it's because it is counting matches where the name you searched for is the name of a parent, but then it doesn't include them in the ones which it shows you.

Merry · #18 27-08-17, 08:48

I just read back the earlier part of this thread. In post #11 you said:

Quote:

In 1851 she's 10 years old in Henbury, living with parents Thomas & Anelia (Ann).

Amelia and Ann are different people. I know I said that in my last long post, but I hadn't realised you were thinking they were one and the same!

Merry · #19 27-08-17, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiterunner

I think it's because it is counting matches where the name you searched for is the name of a parent, but then it doesn't include them in the ones which it shows you.

Ah, OK thanks Kate. I hadn't thought of that!

Merry · #20 27-08-17, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merry

Ah, OK thanks Kate. I hadn't thought of that!

Hmmm... I searched Tho* Phil*s spouse Ann* married 1837 and got one match on those Bristol records but nothing when I clicked to open the set (as I expected). I then changed the search to just Phil*s marrying 1837 and again got one match but this time I could open it. There was nothing on the transcription to reflect the words Tho* or Ann* though. I had expected either the bride or groom's father to have forename Thomas and the church to be St Ann's, but no.....