Ann ? - Page 4 - Genealogists' Forum

Sally · #31 01-10-10, 20:27

I know Merry - I have sent for certs in the past with reference checks, and the GRO seemed to completely ignore them and just sent the cert anyway even though it was wrong.

I am plugging on trying to find John in 1861 - that at least might give some sort of clue. I spent much of last night, and also tonight but so far he has eluded me.............unless of course he was nothing to do with mining prior to 1871!!!!

I am in two minds whether to send for that marriage in 1863, but it worries me that Merthyr main office have no record of the two of them marrying. I have written to the two fringe Record Offices to see if they can come up with anything.

Sally · #32 04-10-10, 18:37

A quick update to say that one of the fringe Records Offices has replied.........no record of this marriage. It only remains for Caerphilly to come back to me now.

Merry · #33 05-10-10, 08:10

I'm just looking again at the GRO marriage index............

Marriages Dec 1863
Harris Ann Merthyr T 11a 532
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 532
Lewis Henry Merthyr T 11a 532
Lewis Mary Merthyr T 11a 532

We found the above four names and know that this John Jones (whoever he is) either married Ann Harris or Mary Lewis.

If Merthyr office had access to all the Merthyr books (which I realise they don't, as it sounds as if some have been farmed out to the other two places) and they had begun their search by sifting through looking for all the grooms called John Jones then they should have found seven marriages as there were seven John Jones entries in the GRO indexes in Merthyr in that Q:

Marriages Dec 1863
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 505
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 573
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 594
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 533
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 532
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 600
Jones John Merthyr T 11a 568

Would it have occurred to them to stop looking if they found a marriage to a Mary Lewis though? (I doubt it!) Had they found a marriage to a Mary Lewis the marriage between the other groom, Henry Lewis, to Ann Harris would have been nextdoor in the register. There's only one entry that Q for a henry Lewis or for a Mary Lewis, but there are two possible brides called Ann Harris.

They would have been better off looking for Henry Lewis's marriage and then checking the one next to it, but we shouldn't have to teach them their job! lol

Sally · #34 05-10-10, 18:21

Not everyone has your research brain Merry!!! I can see what you are getting at though.

Unfortunately, the third Record office has written back having drawn a total blank. This lady had a lovely friendly way of writing though, and she suggested that I knitted my son in law a jumper for christmas instead! Pah - my previous attempts at knitting have never exactly been appreciated

I just don't know what to do now, because without this marriage cert I have no hope whatsoever of taking this line back any further.

Ann Harris is definitely right - got her on Grace's birth cert.

kiterunner · #35 05-10-10, 18:37

Have you got the first Ann's death? Is it possible she was still alive when John took up with the second Ann and so they couldn't get married right away?

Sally · #36 05-10-10, 18:58

Hi Kiterunner, thank you for joining in.

the first Ann we have now ruled out unfortunately......as she overlaps the second Ann on the censuses. I cannot find John prior to his first showing with Ann Harris in 1871 (RG10 5399 113 page 2) - if I could then it might be a huge help in solving this puzzle.

kiterunner · #37 05-10-10, 19:05

Sorry, not sure what you mean about ruling her out? I thought maybe she was still married to John when he took up with the second Ann.

I read through the thread earlier and I thought John and the first Ann had been found in 1861? I must have misunderstood... off to read through again...

Sally · #38 05-10-10, 19:22

Oh.........now I am sorry!! I misunderstood what you meant Kite, and now realise what you are getting at.

This is most definitely an interesting twist which I had never considered. Given John's age, and the fact that he is not to be found unless he is the one married to Ann number 1............hmmmmm.

Sally · #39 05-10-10, 19:27

Merry found Ann the 1st in 1871 with John Jones, but this one does not have his place of birth as Liverpool even though on the previous census it did show Liverpool.

My John Jones is shown in 1871 with Ann the 2nd, so could there be any explanation for him being in two places at once? Or did Ann the 1st merely guess at his place of birth in 1871 as John was not there?

Sally · #40 05-10-10, 19:37

This must all sound very muddled so I will try to put down the facts :

The relevant people in my son in law's tree are

John Jones b.1819 in Liverpool - only known occupation, Mining Contractor
Ann Harris b. 1843 in Llangyndeirn, Carmarthenshire.

We have this couple and their family from 1871 onwards.
There is so far no trace of John Jones prior to 1871, unless we can prove that the entries coupling him with another Ann as detailed earlier in this thread are correct. However, if they ARE correct, then 1871 is a puzzle as he is shown in two places at once - even if one of them gives his wrong place of birth.

As all three possible Records offices have drawn a blank, did he ever actually marry Ann the 2nd?