Percival George Horne - missing in 1891?

[James18]

Originally Posted by Mary from Italy

You're very welcome, but Kate and Merry did nearly all the hard work

To be fair, you could end every sentence in every post on this forum with those words.

[James18]

Hey folks, sorry to bump this thread but I just wondered whether a bit of a break from all this could focus the mind somewhat.

I've added Cecil and Lucy Horne to my Horne family tree, but obviously on the proviso that they were illegitimate; we know this to be true in both cases, as their births were several years after their (legal) fathers' deaths. Real fathers are unknown, although that isn't really a problem for me.

For Cecil, I have birth and death dates, and we know he died as a PoW in Germany. He never married, and I can find nothing to suggest he had any children.

For Lucy, I am working on Merry's assumption that she died in Wandsworth in 1959, and that does appear to be the case. I think the March 1889 Chertsey birth is very likely the right one, though I have not ordered a certificate for that yet - I may eventually.

The problem with Lucy is that I can only find her on one census, and that's with her half-brother Percy and his family in 1911, at which point she is a servant in their household. This is the only piece of evidence I currently have that points to her existence in relation to the Horne family, and it was something we all missed originally.

Finally, I cannot find Lucy's mother Eliza Jane Watson in 1871. There could be any number of reasons for this, but I mention it again as I am hopeful of finding her at some point. It is possibly something as simple as a mistranscribed name.

To recap this information, to save people re-reading the thread...

Cecil Bruce Horne:

b. 07/03/1920, Epsom
d. 15/10/1942, Rheinberg (PoW)

- appears on the 1939 Register

Lucy Horne:

b. Mar-1889, Chertsey
d. Mar-1959, Wandsworth

1891?
1901?
1911

- appears on the 1939 Register (I think? Merry?)

(Eliza) Jane Watson:

b. Mar-1858, West Dean
d. Dec-1890, West Ham

1861
1871?
1881

I'd really, really like to find Lucy in particular, as I am keen to confirm her as a member of this family.

[Merry]

appears on the 1939 Register (I think? Merry?)

I've no idea! What surname would she have?

I don't remember anything about this thread, so do you have Percival on the various censuses?

Presumably there's a reason we couldn't find Lucy before, but I don't really want to have to read the whole thread back to find out any more!

[James18]

I'll try to find the relevant post if possible.

Thinking back, it may be we didn't find her. I think we were following up some information regarding the people she'd worked for previously, who appeared on some later electoral rolls at a different location (a house in Hampshire, I think) but Lucy was not with them at the time.

You found the Wandsworth death, though, and we did manage to narrow it down to that - or at least rule out the others through various means.

[James18]

Merry: http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...&postcount=133

[Merry]

I'm confused as to why Percival and Lucy are half siblings when their parents seem to have married before Percy's birth and George's wife died after Lucy's birth?? What happened to George?

[James18]

I'm assuming that Lucy was Eliza Jane's daughter, born illegitimately just before Eliza died. George was already dead, so he won't be the father. No idea who is, although that isn't really a problem for my research -- unless it turns out Lucy was living with her father's family in 1891 and 1901, in which case it is indeed the problem.

It's similar to Cecil Bruce Horne, where his mother claimed Frederick Horne was his father, despite the fact he was killed in 1914 and Cecil wasn't born until 1920. I think it was just to avoid any shame.

[Merry]

I'm assuming that Lucy was Eliza Jane's daughter, born illegitimately just before Eliza died.

Well, the above bold turns out to be incorrect!

I don't know where we went wrong before, but I've just found this on the 1891 census!!

Fairfield Terrace, Staines, Middlesex

Charles W Smith Head Married 36 Ostler b Beds, Clapton
Mary A Smith Wife Married 35 b Herts, Great Berkhampstead
Sidney C Smith Son 9 b Bucks, Cranfield
Charles W Smith Son 8 b Bucks, Cranfield
Louisa M Smith Daughter 7 b Sussex
Walter A Smith Son 1 b London, Marylebone
Jane Davis Lodger Married 31 B Gloucester, Coleford
Lucy Davis Daughter 2 b Surrey, Chertsey
James R Taylor Lodger Married 50 General Labourer b Island of Ceylon
Agnes B Leat Lodger Married 28 b Kent, Hythe

Way too much of a coincidence to match the forenames and birthplaces, surely?!

This is a very good example of less being more on fmp. Previously I had probably used ancestry to look at children called Luc* from Chertsey. This Lucy shows up in ancestry's initial transcription as the dau of Charles and Mary Smith because she has been listed as daughter rather than lodger and Charles is the head of house. I therefore didn't open the page because she looked legitimate and didn't have a mother called Eliza/Jane. On fmp they don't tell you that information, so you have to view the full transcript/page image and that's when I saw the word Coleford!

I think the birth reg we already have for Lucy is probably the right one as there's nothing (as far as I could see) for Davi(e)s. I can't see a marriage between Horn(e) and Davi(e)s from 1889-1891.

In 1901 things are not so simple!!

Could Jane have decided she is actually Welsh or is this a different couple/different Jane? Seems unlikely.....but a bit odd perhaps. Were any of her family Welsh?

Goosepool, Chertsey, Middlesex

John Davis, head married 43 labourer at linoleum factory b London, Westminster
Jane Davis wife married 42 b Brecon, Merthyr Tydfil, Wales
Lucie Davis dau single 12 b Chertsey Surrey

I can't find John/Jane in 1911, but of course now there are a lot of variables.

Oh, this just turned up (later than I looked previously):

Marriages Mar 1900
Davis John William Windsor 2c 607
Horne Eliza Jane Windsor 2c 607

[kiterunner]

I saw that 1901 entry last night but had ruled them out because of Jane's birthplace! Well done, Merry!

[Merry]

Thanks It was just chance though!

Of course now we know she may easily have called herself Davis and not Horne (other than when her half-brother filled in the 1911 census) the death we found may well be someone else. if she married as Lucy Davis it might be difficult to trace that, but if you had her dob she might appear on the 1939 register I suppose.