Q about C of E vicars

[Merry]

BK6 updated from this thread

Did one have to have a degree from Oxbridge to 'qualify' as a vicar (or whatever the correct term is/was) in the 1840s?

James Williams was bap in 1813 at Mulbarton Norfolk in 1813. The entry is on FreeREG and it states his mother was Sarah Williams and his father's occ was 'servant'. His mother was presumably unmarried and the baptism was a conducted privately.

Zoom forward to 1840 and James Williams marries my 'relative' (I'm working on that!) Elizabeth Grout. His occ on the marriage cert is Clergyman. His bride is the dau of James Grout, gent, and for his own father is written "Joseph Grout, by adoption, gent". Joseph was brother to James Grout, making James Williams an adopted 1st cousin of his bride.

James Williams and Elizabeth are living with Joseph Grout in 1841 and 1851 and in 1851 are described as Joseph's niece and nephew. James is "without care of souls" in 1851 and 1861 (have not looked further)

He is in Crockford's in 1864 but it says nothing about him except Tring Park, Herts which was where he lived (very grand!).

Does it seem likely he was in the care of Joseph Grout for some years in order to have become a clergyman? I am wondering if Joseph was his real father.

[Merry]

For a Victorian James had an 'unfortunate' start to life - but he ended up with an estate valued at under £500,000 in 1871.

Not bad.

[Phoenix]

There is this on Wikipaedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch...ation_1790.jpg

It suggests no formal training.

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by Merry

James Williams was bap in 1813 at Mulbarton Norfolk in 1813. The entry is on FreeREG and it states his mother was Sarah Williams and his father's occ was 'servant'. His mother was presumably unmarried and the baptism was a conducted privately.

Mulbarton PR's don't seem to be in the Norfolk images on FamilySearch, unfortunately, but I would bet it means that Sarah's occupation was "servant", not the father's occupation (assuming his father isn't named on the baptism?) I've seen plenty of illegitimate baptisms where "singlewoman" or "widow" is written in the father's occupation column.

[Merry]

I thought of that whilst I was telling OH about it, Kate! Thanks.

That's interesting, Phoenix. So they didn't need to be a Dr of Divinity or a Dr of Theology then? I don't know where I got the idea they did; maybe just because the one little line of vicars I have on my tree all have these qualifications.

Now I just need to work out how come one brother make so much money when the others were all harness makers and saddlers?

[Merry]

Ah I see in a newspaper marriage notice for James Williams it says he is a BA.

[KiwiChris]

There were 2 "classes" of clergy. Certainly early on an Oxbridge degree was the only way to get there, but then in the early 1800s there were colleges set up to train "working" clergy. And horrors, some of them even took married men!
I have a vague memory that the working type colleges were mainly in the north, but that may be because St Bees is the one that comes to mind.

[Margaret in Burton]

OH has a RC priest in his family. He was a student at Cotton College, Staffordshire in 1901

[Merry]

Thanks Chris.

I'm now supposing James 'adopted' father paid for his education as well as leaving him a fortune. I wish I could find out where Joseph Grout was living in 1813.

[Mary from Italy]

I guess you already know that James and Elizabeth's daughter Frederica was buried in Italy?