IF

[Kit]

I saw 2 transcriptions for the Sarah Nicholson marriage. One was Walton the other Walter. If all the children are Walton then I'd say it is the wrong marriage.

I only think he had 2 marriages as he was a widow when marrying Frances.

From memory he was a Shearmaker. I don't know what that is but it was consistent on the children's baptisms. Is that another name for a shoemaker?

[Kit]

I saw the 1851 census entry and couldn't decide if it was mine. As you say the age doesn't work for a previous marriage and I was looking for wills to see if that helped, I hadn't followed anything else up.

I lost ancestry for a few days and couldn't do anything. I put the info up for Libby as she requested. I don't think I've used the Lancs OPC.

[HarrysMum]

Lancs OPC is a brilliant free site. Read the intro as you can search the whole county or just parishes. The areas that used to be Lancs but are not anymore are there as well.

[Kit]

That sounds wonderful. John's daughter Ellen's men are problems too. I might find them there.

Haha I'm so funny.

[HarrysMum]

We live in hope. If you ever see a spare Hugh Addison around the 1700s, I’ll have him. Next to nothing official on him, but he’s mentioned in wills and books. I have his will. He hid his children as well. lol

[Merry]

From memory he was a Shearmaker.

lol! *note to self* Don't do lookups without glasses!

Yesterday everything said shoemaker, but now, with my reading glasses everything says shearmaker! lol

Shears = big scissors used by tailors and the like for cutting cloth. I would presume the term might also include what we (or us here in the UK anyway!) might call garden shears, or if those had a different name in the past.

The 1851 census chap does say shoemaker, but of course that could be an error too (though there is a shoe binder in their household too)! The problem with that man is that he has children with him born in Ireland within the date range of his marriage to Frances. I can't find the sons anywhere else to see how their ages pan out, as if they had been a bit older it could just about have worked (ie born to a previous marriage in Ireland), but less relevant if he was truly a shoemaker.

I think it's far more likely that Frances was actually a widow already in 1851 but the census entry is incorrect for her status. She was probably a widow in 1841 as well. That would explain why we can't find a sensible death for John. Another option is that John had left Frances and she didn't know if he was alive or dead.

[Merry]

Originally Posted by HarrysMum

Lancs OPC is a brilliant free site. Read the intro as you can search the whole county or just parishes. The areas that used to be Lancs but are not anymore are there as well.

Much of what is on Lancs OPC can now be found as images on Ancestry, but it is a great finding tool if you can follow up with an image. I have found a few mis-transcriptions over the years - hardly surprising when you consider the size of the project.

[Merry]

When Johns dau Catherine married in 1845 she didn't say her father was dec'd, but none of the other marriages (I looked at 20 entries, each side) said father dec'd, so we can't read anything into that. Same for her sister Susan, same year.

Susan married again in 1859, but still no comment about her father's status, except that this time he is a chair maker, which is the same occ as the groom's father, so may be an error.

In 1870 James b 1832 married and John was listed as shear maker. A marriage on the opposite page has father's dec'd, but of course we don't know if this was asked, or in that case the bride offered the information. I did look at he witnesses for all these marriages, but no John. I didn't look at pre-1837 marriages.

[Kit]

Originally Posted by Merry

I can't find the sons anywhere else to see how their ages pan out, as if they had been a bit older it could just about have worked (ie born to a previous marriage in Ireland), but less relevant if he was truly a shoemaker.

I think it's far more likely that Frances was actually a widow already in 1851 but the census entry is incorrect for her status. She was probably a widow in 1841 as well. That would explain why we can't find a sensible death for John. Another option is that John had left Frances and she didn't know if he was alive or dead.

I'll have a look tomorrow and see if anything stands out for me.

He may have just left Frances. I'm fairly sure that Ellen's husband, Isaac, is not dead, well wasn't back then anyway, which is why I can't find a marriage to Thomas Thompson.

Originally Posted by Merry

When Johns dau Catherine married in 1845 she didn't say her father was dec'd, but none of the other marriages (I looked at 20 entries, each side) said father dec'd, so we can't read anything into that. Same for her sister Susan, same year.

Susan married again in 1859, but still no comment about her father's status, except that this time he is a chair maker, which is the same occ as the groom's father, so may be an error.

In 1870 James b 1832 married and John was listed as shear maker. A marriage on the opposite page has father's dec'd, but of course we don't know if this was asked, or in that case the bride offered the information. I did look at he witnesses for all these marriages, but no John. I didn't look at pre-1837 marriages.

I'll have to check I have all this information. It's too late here to remember. I know I checked as thoroughly as I could to work things out. I also wanted family to be witnesses for each other, but the ones I wanted didn't co-operate.

[Merry]

One of the older children of John and Frances was Sarah, who married in 1843 to plumber Emanuel Nelson - one of the witnesses is Sarah's future brother-in-law, James Smylie.

Emanuel Nelson's father is recorded as dec'd, but Sarah's father is John Walter a cutler, and not recorded as dec'd. So.….was he alive somewhere after all?? Or did Sarah not know?