Looking for La Granda Alpha Watson

[Macbev]

Merry, I think you do just have to take 'pot luck' with WA death certs. Unlike the birth indexes, where you can use parents' names to search to some extent, I don't think you can similarly search death indexes.

The indexes do not display names of mother or father in the listing for my grand parents' deaths. But my grandfather's certificate gives full details of parents, whereas my grandmother's cert simply says 'unknown' in the relevant columns. I have no idea why some entries list parental names and others do not.

i agree you would do better to acquire the birth certificate.....I just posted in case anyone was interested in WA death certs and what they might expect to find on them. Quite a lot, if you are lucky with the informant.

[Merry]

Thanks for the info MacBev. It's always good to know how different searches work on different sites.

[Merry]

I was just looking at Marmaduke and Agnes again.

They married in 1870 and are together on each census until Marmaduke's death in 1905. In 1911 Agnes is a widow, living with her married daughter and son-in-law. She has given the number of children born in her marriage as 5 with three surviving and two dec'd.

They seem to be:

Willie b 1871 (was with Wilson grandparents/uncle in 1881 and 1891 but marriage cert confirms father's name)
Jackson b 1872
Frances Annie b 1876 d 1899
Margaret b 1882 married Craven Clifford in 1911 and Agnes is with them for the 1911 census
Jane b 1890 d 1898

So apparently she is not the mother of Alpha. I still think you need that birth cert to be sure though!

[Nerrida]

Hello Everyone

Thankyou very, very much for all your contributions! I haven't ordered either birth or death certificates, due to being concerned that after paying the hefty fees they won't have the details I want. In those days did the mother have to disclose her name if the child was illegitimate? I must admit I am leaning towards the John Watson and Elizabeth Wilson combination.

Once again, a huge big thankyou to everyone who contributed.

Warm Regards

Nerrida xx

[Merry]

If Alpha was illegitimate and the father had accompanied the mother to the register office (she could not declare the name of the father independently if they were not married) then there would be a further entry in the GRO index giving his surname and the same volume and page number so leading to the same certificate. (there's more info about restrictions on whether a putative father's name could be entered at different times in history under the Column 4 section here Note that one of the changed occurred in 1875!). There is no second entry for Alpha with a different surname so that doesn't appear to be the case here. That doesn't mean he wasn't illegitimate, just that no father was named if he was!

Here's an example of a birth registered where the parents were not married but the father is named on the cert - the mother's surname was Packer and the father's Cotton:


Births Jun 1846
Cotton Robert William St. Giles & St. George Bloomsbury 1 57
Packer Robert William St. Giles & St. George Bloomsbury 1 57


To establish Alpha's parent(s) names you would need to purchase his birth cert and the other certs available may have unreliable or missing information. Of course he was probably baptised but the records for local churches don't seem to be online and in the end it would probably cost you more money, and certainly more time, to try and trace the baptism (if there was one) at this point in time.

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by Nerrida

In those days did the mother have to disclose her name if the child was illegitimate?

Yes, the birth certificate will give the mother's name even if the child was illegitimate.

[Merry]

lol I mis-read that Q!

[Mary from Italy]

Originally Posted by kiterunner

Yes, the birth certificate will give the mother's name even if the child was illegitimate.

Unless he was a foundling, ie. actually abandoned by the mother so no-one knew who she was, but in this case that's very unlikely, as he was brought up by family.

[James18]

La Granda Alpha is a very good name.

Who was it that had twins called Alpha and Omega?

[Merry]

Originally Posted by James18

.

Who was it that had twins called Alpha and Omega?

Me! Well, not personally, but those were the original names of my great-grandfather's twin brothers (before they became Francis and Frederick).