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  #51  
Old 13-05-22, 17:53
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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Thanks for posting those two links.

Remind me,

Emma Ann Palmer... does she disappear when Emma Wingfield does appear? She is the right age, and seems to be born in the right area.
Yes the last I have certainty of her is 1861, a few Emma Palmers around but can't be sure sure any of them are her. I think Sarah died in 1863/64 got one death cert but still none the wiser nothing on it confirms its my Sarah. Louisa Jane died on 20 Dec 1862 • 33 Ware Street, Kingsland Road, Hackney, London. That is Sarah's brother Walter with them he died of smallpox on 1 Oct 1871 • Small Pox Hospital, Hackney, London.

They were at the same address Ann died at:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...NTI0NjQxNzUuMA..

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...NTI0NjQ2MjkuMA..

Last edited by maggie_4_7; 13-05-22 at 17:58.
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  #52  
Old 13-05-22, 19:27
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So every single member of Emma Palmer's immediate family were dead by 1871? That's dreadful.
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  #53  
Old 14-05-22, 06:10
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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So every single member of Emma Palmer's immediate family were dead by 1871? That's dreadful.
Yes I think so, but I haven't found Sarah's son Thomas for sure, I expect he died her other daughter Emma born 1850 did.

My 3rd grt grandfather Daniel died 1866 and his wife Martha 1852, the other children were missing well to me they are. The only constant people were Daniel and Martha's two youngest daughters my 2nd grt grandmother Emma born 1842 and Jane her sister born 1836.

Emma died in 1930 and Jane died in 1937 at age 101. I have a photo of Jane being presented with a card by the Mayor of Colchester when she was 100. Although three of Jane's children died of smallpox.
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  #54  
Old 14-05-22, 09:00
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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It has to be Emma Wingfield that is the DNA connection.

I have been cross checking matches.

The highest match with Emma Wingfield as their direct ancestor is a DNA match with a descendent of Jane Wingfield (my Daniel's sister) the convict transported to Australia.
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  #55  
Old 14-05-22, 10:11
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It has to be Emma Wingfield that is the DNA connection.
So, that's the Emma who wasn't born (but says 1857 Dalston) and appeared at her first marriage in 1879 and is only on the census after that date and died in 1930? (Just checking what is in my head isn't wrong!). And she needs to be a grandchild of Daniel and Martha, but from a DNA point of view I presume it makes no difference whose child she is as long as they are her grandparents?
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  #56  
Old 14-05-22, 10:35
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And there is Sarah in Dalston with a daughter Emma (Palmer). Emma appears to be orphaned by the early 1860s, with only her mother Wingfield's side of the family to look after her. If she went into the workhouse, it may have been discovered that her parents weren't married and she was properly a Wingfield. By 1871, she would have been old enough to be put in service somewhere.
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  #57  
Old 14-05-22, 13:13
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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So, that's the Emma who wasn't born (but says 1857 Dalston) and appeared at her first marriage in 1879 and is only on the census after that date and died in 1930? (Just checking what is in my head isn't wrong!). And she needs to be a grandchild of Daniel and Martha, but from a DNA point of view I presume it makes no difference whose child she is as long as they are her grandparents?

No my 2nd grt grandmother Emma Sayer nee Wingfield Daniel and Martha's daughter died in 1930.

The Emma I am concerned with emigrated to USA and died there.

This is the first post

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...ad.php?t=30700
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  #58  
Old 14-05-22, 16:36
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Ok, yes, I realised when I was planting my broad beans that I had mentioned a death that was for the previous generation!

So, Emma b 1857 Dalston eventually went to America, but as you don't know her whereabouts before her first marriage in 1879 you don't know who her parents are, but she should be a grandchild of Daniel and Martha because of the DNA match? Is that right?!
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  #59  
Old 14-05-22, 16:56
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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Ok, yes, I realised when I was planting my broad beans that I had mentioned a death that was for the previous generation!

So, Emma b 1857 Dalston eventually went to America, but as you don't know her whereabouts before her first marriage in 1879 you don't know who her parents are, but she should be a grandchild of Daniel and Martha because of the DNA match? Is that right?!
Yes that's what I am thinking.
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  #60  
Old 14-05-22, 18:02
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Ok. It's so tempting to say she is the same person as Emma Ann Palmer, but you would think there might have been some sort of overlap with their supposed fathers details. US Emma said John Wingfield, provisions dealer and Emma Ann was the child of Frederick Palmer, merchant mariner or similar.

I think you said there were other children for Frederick Palmer. Did any of them live to adulthood?
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