[Rick]

I hesitated to put this up as it seems hideously complicated to me, but that's partly because I've been staring at it for a couple of weeks and getting nowhere. Any help gratefully received - even if it's to agree it's not possible to get any further.

I actually know quite a lot about Giles Theyer, depite not having a baptism or burial for him, but I'll try to keep it brief here. He was probably buried in 1774 at Christ Church, Newgate Street, London (aka Greyfriars), but their burial registers were lost in the blitz and are unlikely to have given an age in any case. His apprenticeship as a joiner in 1710 would indicate a birth around 1695/6 and the indenture names his father as Giles Theyer of Beckenham, Kent, a farmer.

A Giles Theyer married Margaret Salmon in 1682 in Bromley, Kent and Beckenham is in the borough of Bromley. There are no online indexes for Beckenham PRs. The LDS have filmed them and placed them on Familysearch, but they are only available to church members (presumably due to licensing restrictions).

Problem one: One of Giles Theyer junior's apprentices (in 1742) was William Salmon, son of Thomas, late of St Ann Westminster, deceased joiner. There's a baptism for William in 1728 at St Anne Soho, parents Thomas & Elizabeth and a potential marriage for Thomas to an Elizabeth Farrar in 1718 in Westminster. I assume there's some connection with Margaret Salmon, but can't find it.

Problem Two: Samuel Theyer's will of 1725 says he is a gentleman of Stoke Newington and does not mention a wife or children. It does however mention his kinswoman Margaret Theyer, widow, late wife of Giles Theyer, late of Beckenham in Kent, deceased. This is a recent find and it mentions her son Giles and proves I'm on the right lines (hooray). There's also reference to her son John and daughter Margaret, neither of whom I'd heard of before and I know nothing more about them. There's also a kinswoman Elizabeth Flower of Stepney, widow and her only daughter (not named). There are a few candidates to be Elizabeth Flower and I can't work that out, although there's a 1747 will of one who is formerly of Mile End Old Town which might be her. She does not mention a daughter, but names a brother Harward Martin and her sister, his wife Joanna, plus a sister Mary Manning, wife of Benjamin, gentleman. Harward Martin married Joanna Fairhorn in 1724 with the consent of her guardian, Benjamin Manning. He married Mary Harwell in 1723.

There are many other people mentioned in Samuel's will, but none are indentified as kin. Of particular note is Christopher Stephenson of Hackney, gent, who gets a considerable sum, and his granddaughter Charlotte Aldcroft (daughter of Sarah Stephenson and Charles Aldcroft).

I can't make any of these names stick together in a meaningful way. Do you think Samuel would have said explicitly if Giles senior was his late brother or does his use of kinswoman to describe Margaret imply a more distant relationship ?

In searching for Giles (Gyles, Gile, Theyer, Theyre, Thayer, Thayre, Thoyer, Thair, Their and even Floyer and Shoyer), I came across another London family with the name Thayer. They appear to descend from a Humphrey from Essex, but one of them, Samuel has a 1721 will which asks that he be buried at Christ Church. Possibly a coincidence, but it has added to my confusion. So much for keeping it brief - sorry.