ellen sherlock b 1905 Everton,Liverpool
 

Hi - a little complicated
Ellen Sherlock b 1905 - family lived in 87 Rylan Street Everton,Liverpool
parents Joseph SHerlock and Ruth Ryder Sutcliffe - they had 6 children in all.
.................................................. ............
1936 Ellen gives birth on 6th March to a girl
Birth Certificate states
A M Moles - daughter - Father Joseph Moles - mother Ellen Moles - nee Sherlock
....... Father Joseph Moles - Dock Labourer deceased
....
so - I can't find NO MARRIAGE - and NO DEATH for Joseph Moles 1935-36
I am convinced Ellen - who obviously registered the baby - told lies - the baby was adopted 5 weeks later and I have her new Birth Certificate in her new name ...
So - am I right in thinking I might find Ellen Sherlock in Liverpool - or Birkenhead area in 1939 register - or could she just assume the name Ellen Moles .
the only 2 Joseph Moles I can find the right age are
born West Ham 1905 - marries West Ham 1934 to Diana Morrison
born Islington 1906 - no marriage
so
did Joseph Moles b 1905 come to Liverpool a year after he married and have a child with Ellen Sherlock and Ellen made up the marriage and his death ?
any help appreciated
had me up all night ...lol

Two questions, before I read this properly!

1) Is the lady b 1936 still living and is she happy for this thread?

2) Do you think it wold be better on Sensitive Research so the details won't be picked up by Google? I can move the thread...

1939 Register

Joseph Sherlock M 7 Feb 68 W Retired Heating Engineer
Ellen Sherlock F 6 Nov 05 S Cashier Book Keeper Clothing
Eveline Sherlock F 20 Sep 98 S Dressmaker

42 Liverpool Road South, Maghull, West Lancashire R.D., Lancashire

Yes, I found the same 1939 Reg entry. Her dob is also on her baptism at St Saviour's Everton.

Is there an address for the birth on the original cert?

Thanks Merry - I have it in front of me - it states

Joanne Skerries co Dublin - A A FINCH - present at birth
139 Hallgrove Road

I don't know if she was born on a crossing from Dublin to Liverpool ??? baffles me
No Hallgrove road in Liverpool
there is a Hall Grove Road in Dublin - quite frankly the writing on the original birth cert is abysmal - the girl was born 6th March - the certificate issued 2nd April - as far as adopted at 5 weeks - that is what her 2 daughters are telling me - might not be a fact .
Garston has its market every Friday - and the girls call in for a drink after shopping - they are 66 and 62 - I will see them around 1130 later - as I say they have given me BOTH Birth certs
I don't now if this is relevant - I think they are the dates that their mum applied for her birth certs
original birth name and parents 2nd february 1978
changed name / adoption 11th October 1971 - I don't think their mum is alive - I will check later .
I appreciate your help - I have gone back to 1802 in Liverpool to George Sherlock with Ellen Sherlocks family - easy for me - all on Lan-opc

ADDED- that might say to Dublin and not co Dublin ??

I presume you have something to demonstrate the birth mother is this Ellen in particular?

Her father, and her daughter's father are both called Joseph. This suggests that Ellen was caught on the spot, and couldn't think of a name for the father, rather than that was his real name. (In a similar circumstance, I've seen a woman name her brother, who I'm fairly sure was not the father)

I'm still wondering how you know this Ellen b 1905 was the mother and not another Ellen Sherlock. Having said that, I do agree with Phoenix's comment about her using her father's first name for her baby's father, but I still want to be sure you have the right mother!!

Is this an Irish birth certificate?