Hi , Merry , hope you have a good journey ,on the train , as I know too well it can be a bind , I am now tracking Mary William and Ellen's daughter , who I believe married George Flowers in 1876 , I think it's definely her as father , fits and witnesses were James and Emma Grimshaw . I think they had lots of children , I believe she was only sixteen when she married , the children I can see are cicely , Charles, William, Margeret Jane , Charles Sarah , there seems to be two williams so maybe one died . One was 8 in 1891 and the other 18 . Unless the census had a anomaly. So I can try and follow these children unless some of them died .

I thought you were talking about William, son of Peter and Sarah, not William your ancestor (in post #106).

Not sure what you mean about 8 and 18? There's only one William in the 1891 household - he is 8. There are none in the 1881 census.

it may be what i had written , as you know what your doing unlike me lol

You have two Charles' listed above as well as mentioning two Williams!

On the 1881 census they have two living children, Mary Ellen 3 and Cicely 2. You haven't mentioned either of them, so did you look at the 1881 or 1891 census as they are on both? Here are the birth registrations for those two:

FLEWERS, MARY ELLEN mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 64

FLEWERS, CICELY GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 869

I looked for other birth registrations 1876-1881, but didn't find any.

On to 1891.... by the 1891 census they had another three living children, Charles 10, William 8 and Margaret Jane 2. Here are their registrations:

FLEWERS, CHARLES mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 559

FLOWERS, WILLIAM mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 151

FLOWERS, MARGARET JANE mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1889 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 10

There's also this birth:


FLEWERS, GEORGE mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 803

George's death was registered in Q2 1888 in Wigan district.

By 1901 they have one more living child:

FLOWERS, SARAH mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1894 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 74

There's also Henry:

FLOWERS, HENRY mmn GRIMSHAW
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 112

who died Q3 1897.

In 1911 Mary Grimshaw (Flowers) is a widow so she hasn't filled in the part about number of children born.

Here's her husband's death:

Deaths Jun 1901
Flowers George 53 Wigan 8c 68

and a likely death for Mary:

Deaths Jun 1925

FLOWERS Mary 65 Wigan 8c 21

So, I can only see one Charles and one William. If the 18 year-old William you mentioned was that age in 1891 (I don't know that it was, as I'm struggling to find whatever it was you did) then he would have been born when Mary was aged only about 11, so that seems extremely unlikely.

hi ,merry im sorry i am not as meticulous as you are probably spot on .Ive been using family search org a lot recently .Has i am not on ancestry which i think is the better site . so your research is definetly better than mine .

hi probably looked at the 1881 census .

hi sorry its the 1891 census i looked at ive checked what i have written have put the children down as i saw them on Family search , Ill double check as i did think it was strange when i saw the two williams . will look now

Here's the 1891 census copied and pasted from Family Search:

Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
George Flowers Head M 41 London, England
Mary Flowers Wife F 33 Lancashire, England
Mary Ellen Flowers Daughter F 14 Lancashire, England
Cicely Flowers Daughter F 13 Lancashire, England
Charles Flowers Son M 10 Cumberland, England
William Flowers Son M 8 Lancashire, England
Margt Jane Flowers Daughter F 2 Lancashire, England


Only one William and only one Charles!

Here's the 1881 census, also from Family Search:

Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
George Flowers Head M 32 London, Middlesex, England
Mary Flowers Wife F 20 Ince, Lancashire, England
Mary Ellen Flowers Daughter F 3 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Secilia Flowers Daughter F 2 Skelmersdale, Lancashire, England

hi ,Merry ,thanks , great work as usual .