Looking for help to find the right ancestors
 

Hi , I did with some help find my great great grandmother on my fathers side of the family . We found Jane Hale who was born in Ormskirk In 1825. /26 Mother Esther father William Hale . Now I think that her mothers maiden name was chamberlain , how do I make sure that this is the right person before I continue my search . As I can't find the marriage in Ormskirk ,although if she is a chamberlain I can find a birth around 1798 in scarisbrick which isn't far from Ormskirk parents Thomas and Jane . So any help in finding the right mothers maiden name would be gratefully received thanks qwackers

I found Esther in 1851 and her youngest child was John b abt 1837. This is presumably his birth reg:

HALE, JOHN mmn ESTHER CHAMBERLANE

GRO Reference: 1837 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 21 Page 371

So, mother's whole name rather than maiden name!!

What is your source for Esther's maiden name? Presumably not just that you "thought it"!!! :D

Where did you look for the marriage? Here it is on Lancs OPC!

Marriage: 17 May 1821 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Hale - (X), This Parish
Esther Chamberlane - (X), This Parish
Witness: Henry Stephenson; George Wignall
Married by Banns by: Charles Forshaw, Curate
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1827, Page 136, Entry 408
Source: LDS Film 1849664

On that 1851 census, Esther is age 50, born Ormskirk, just so we have that info to hand.

And in 1861 she is age 58, born Ormskirk.

Hmm, then Lancashire OPC has the marriage dated 30 Jul 1866 at St Peter & St Paul, Ormskirk, of Richard Pye, 40, labourer, widower, of Ormskirk, and Esther Hale, 50, widow, of Ormskirk, her father being Thomas Chamberlain, deceased. If it's her (and I would think so, given MMN Chamberlain), she had knocked quite a few years off her age! Father's name fits with that Scarisbrick baptism.

Hi , that's the problem , I looked for a marriage for William hale hopefully finding whom he married . I looked on the parish records of Ormskirk , trying to cross ref the name etc .. I just wanted to be sure that I am following the right person in Esther chamberlane . Wouldn't want to get it wrong also I m still trying to trace Williams tree , don't know if he was born in the area or not ? Have you any idea ? Thanks

Is this them in 1871? Richard a lot older than on that transcription; Esther back to approx her right age:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

Mill Street, Ormskirk
Richard Pye Head Mar 67 Labourer Lancs Lathom
Esther Pye Wife Mar 71 Ormskirk
John Pye Son Unm 26 Butcher Do Do.

I have got the 1841 census , with children William age 6 john age 3 Jane age 15 and Sam age 16 .thanks

As for checking whether Esther Chamberlain is the right person, can you give us info on where Jane Hale fits in to your tree so we can check that bit? If you have the right Jane, then it looks as though Esther Chamberlain is right.

Edit - found the old thread which mentions Jane Hale:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...highlight=hale

According to that thread, James Robinson married Jane Hale in 1850 at Our Lady & St Nicholas & St Anne, Liverpool, and Jane was born about 1824 Ormskirk. We just need to check her details on that marriage record to make sure it's the same Jane as the one you found.

The image for the Richard Pye / Esther Hale marriage is on ancestry and the ages are indeed given as 40 and 50, but I think both ages may have been way out.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

Did you read my posts?

Kate, here is a post of yours from another thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/F...97&postcount=5

The Robinsons are with Esther on either 1851 or 1861 (forgotten now!)

Here is the image of the James Robinson / Jane Hale marriage on ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

11 Nov 1850. Jane's residence Rose Hill, father William Hale, weaver. Witnesses Samuel Hale and Mary Hale.

William Hale was a weaver on the 1841 census, so it all fits.

D'oh - of course it is the right family, since James and Jane are with Esther on the 1851 census!!!
(edit - thanks, Merry, I know all that now!)

So, Esther Chamberlain was baptised 21 Oct 1798 at Ormskirk, daughter of Thomas and Jane of Scarisbrick. There are also Edward 15 Mar 1801, and John 9 Jun 1805, sons of Thomas and Jane Chamberlain, but abode is Ormskirk on those two, which might explain why Esther's birthplace is Ormskirk on the censuses, if her family moved there when she was very young.

Thomas Chamberlain married Jane Bailey 22 Aug 1798 at Ormskirk.

Yes scarisbrick is part of ormskirk and is a rural area . Rural area not too far away so that would fit . Can we now find the parents of William Hale was he also born in Ormskirk or surrounding areas it would be interesting to find that out .thanks for all your help

All we have about William Hale's birthplace is from the 1841 census, which is just "Yes" for born in Lancashire. I assume his death is the one which was registered Jul-Sep 1849 Ormskirk, age 54. Which would mean he was born about 1795.

There are a few William Hale baptisms in Lancashire around 1795, but not sure which one is him.

Hi , thanks I'll see which one seems to fit around the date in the area . If not look further afield . Thanks

Hi , Kiterunner , when you said the residence of Jane Hale dips Rose hill in 1850 . IS it in the district of Ormskirk or does it not say ? Thanks

I don't know what you mean about "dips"? But as they got married at St Nicholas, Liverpool, Rose Hill should be in that parish. My Liverpool A-Z shows Rose Hill in central Liverpool, close to St Anne Street and just north of John Moores University. Close to Lime Street railway station.

It doesn't say, but normally at least one party to the marriage would have to give an address in the parish the church represented, so in this case both bride and groom say Rose Hill for their address, so Rose Hill should be in the parish of St Nicholas in Liverpool.

EDIT - snap Kate!

Thanks I will look up on maps to see if there is a place named rose hill .

Hi. There is a place named rosehill in Liverpool it isn't too far away from the docks .

Yes, the one Kite mentioned!

As I said, it is shown on my Liverpool A - Z as a street near to St Anne Street.

Hi , did you find any William hale' s born in Ormskirk in 1795 ? It's a shot in the dark , but I found a William Hale born in 1895 , in the Liverpool area parents isacc and Catherine in the parish our lady st Nicholas and st Anne . Jane hale got married to James robinson at that church . It is only a shot . As Maybe I will not be able to trace down his line . But you have a better idea than I . Thanks

I didn't, but I'm wondering whether there are some Ormskirk area baptisms from that time which aren't online yet? Because I have a few ancestors from there whose baptisms I haven't found.

Yes you may be right but there are lots of different areas of Ormskirk which could have church records I've looked at Halsall which is near Ormskirk . I'll see what other churches there are in the area thanks

There are parish records for Aughton ,if your looking at the Ormskirk area

Those are transcribed on Lancashire OPC already, though.

I should imagine that not all transcriptions are on line . As yet . Would the records not be held on micro fiche at the library ? In Ormskirk

I expect so.

Re ormskirk area
 

I will e.mail the library and see what records they hold ., and will let you know .

Hi , was looking at the marriage of Samuel Hale in Ormskirk in 1851 , Grooms father William . We assume that is death was the one mentioned in 1849 . Could it be that William hale was still alive at that point ? Thanks

Samuel Hale b abt 1828 Ormskirk is with his wife Ellen and three sons (checked birth registrations and mmn is Harrison) in 1861 in St Helens. Tracing him back to 1851 he is with his widowed mother Esther Hale aged 50 b Ormskirk. So that's Esther Chamberlain isn't it?

Hi , yes that's correct , but Samuel got married in 1851 , and on parish records it' states grooms father William . So it looks like he attended the wedding as he is mentioned . Unless parish record is incorrect . But previously we have assumed he has died around 1849 .

Just because a father is named on a marriage cert doesn't mean he was at the wedding! It was a legal requirement that a father's details were taken and recorded. So his name being on the certificate doesn't mean he was there. Family members did not routinely attend weddings in those days as they do today.

It was very common for information to be taken about the father without asking if they were dead or alive too. So a marriage certificate that suggests the father is alive isn't exactly incorrect, it's just not complete information. There is no mention in the column headings of the requirement to state if the father is deceased.

It's more likely it's correct that Esther was a widow in 1851 (have you looked for her husband staying somewhere else and found any possible matches?).

Had you looked at the burial for William in 1849?

Burial: 5 Aug 1849 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Hale -
Age: 54 yrs
Abode: Ormskirk
Notes: Roman Catholic
Register: Burials 1846 - 1852, Page 266, Entry 2126
Source: LDS Film 1849664

He was Catholic. This might explain why you can't find a suitable baptism in the area. Transcripts of St Ann's Ormskirk RC church records are held at the Lancashire Archives, but don't seem to be on Lancs OPC.

Hi , yes I understand more clearly now , perhaps I will have to visit the records office in Preston . And have a look to see if I can find him Thanks for your help once again ??

Hi Merry , I'm still searching for the birth of William Hale around 1795 ormskirk area , last time I looked you had found a few William hales in the area ,but couldn't pin point which one was correct .Is there any other way to find more info ? Thanks

Have you eliminated the records for St Ann's Ormskirk RC church?

No , but they are not online ,on ancestry ,family search Etc . Looking at the records ,they may be held in Preston for St Annes Catholic Church . I have emailed them to see if they hold the records , will let you know . If so I may have to make a trip . Thanks