Marriage certificates again
 

I was looking at the 1899 marriage certificate of Herbert Charles Purkis and Mary Dickens Quintrell that is attached to my daughter's Ancestry tree (which I help edit) and noted quite a few signatures.

We discussed this a short time ago.

This time there only a paltry seven signed.
John Quintrell (father of the bride), Ida Moore and Amy Quintrell (Herbert's sisters), Fanny Eddy Knott (bride's sister), Tom Quintrell (bride's brother), May Quintrell (daughter of Amy Quintrell and only 8 years old) and Muriel White (big surprise - my grandmother, not quite 7 years old!)

I've never seen children this young witness a marriage. Muriel (always called Mimi) was the bride's niece. Her parents didn't sign but they must have been present.

Both children had beautifully clear signatures.

When Best Mate's grandparents married, the witnesses were two males whose names I did not recognise. I looked for them on the censuses, and discovered that they were two small boys, who I assume happened to be passing the church at the time. They had no apparent connection to either family.

Having read plenty of Victorian novelists, often the children of clergymen, who obviously had little knowledge of the mechanics of the marriage ceremony, I wonder whether the bride and groom always knew that there had to be witnesses?

It was this family who had a really large number of witnesses to a marriage - I think it was thirteen.

The Purkis - Quintrell alliances!

I have seen up to about six (usually where I get the impression that one sister has said - if Mary and Sarah can sign, I think you should let me sign too - leading Ann Charlotte and Amelia to pile in too) but never more outside Quaker weddings. It's more often the case that they can't even scrape two signatures or marks.

I have one marriage where at least 12 people signed, although two of them were so excited they signed twice. It seemed fairly common in that church for more than two people to sign. This was late 1700s from memory.

OC

I have both those names in my tree, my ancestor Ellen/Eleanor Purkis is a brick wall.

Maggie, where and when was Ellen/Eleanor Purkis born?

There are a lot in Hampshire and also Essex and London.

Quintrell is a Cornish surname. Where did your Quintrells live?

The Purkis and Quintrell/Quantrell/Quantrill are not connected the Qs are married ins and come from Norfolk.

Ellen Purkis born about 1800 always assumed it was London but who knows, married Francis Smith widower (never found his first marriage I think he was a bit older) on 4 September 1818 • St Matthew Church, Bethnal Green, England, had 3 daughters one my ancestor Harriet the other two Sarah and Charlotte I have no idea what happened to them or Francis and Ellen for that matter, where they came from or their deaths either. I think I have her on an 1841 census but not sure it is her.

There is a baptism in Westminster but I don't think it's her.

Edited Actually scrap that they are connected in a way William Q married Elizabeth Worley Harriet's Smith's daughter, Harriet was Ellen Purkis' daughter.

I couldn't find any baptisms in Hampshire for Ellen/Eleanor.

Purkis is a good Hampshire name, as testified by the story of the death of William Rufus. Purkis, a charcoal burner, put the body on the back of his cart and took it to Winchester, so the story goes.

https://archaeology-travel.com/engla...est-hampshire/

Timber provided the livelihood for many generations of Purkises and New Forest dwellers. Many became sawyers and carpenters and many plied their trade in the naval dockyards at Portsmouth.

I will take a look at the Westminster baptism and track where those parents came fro.m