Zipporah Williamson b 1876 Mottram,Cheshire
 

Hi...1st time i`ve done this....
My dads nan...
Zipporah Williamson b 1876 Mottram.Cheshire (sometimes spelt ZEpporah...
married Robert Walker b 1864 in c1893
one member on FTF has the same family and states that Charlotte Williamson b 1852 Glossop is Zipporahs mum....don`t know the father...
in the 1881 census Zipporah is in her grandfather s house and it states she`s grandaughter...there`s quite a few in the household including Charlotte with a sister named Zipporah b 1867......I HAVE NEVER FOUND ZIPPORAHS DEATH and I`m thinking she may have died here in Garston......allan:)

I take it you don't have her marriage cert?

Marriages Sep 1891
Booth Amelia Ashton 8d 789
Kay Thomas Ashton 8d 789
Teasdale Alice Ann Ashton 8d 789
Walker Robert Ashton 8d 789
Williamson Zipporah Ashton 8d 789

Is their dau Martha your ancestor? I can see her in 1911 but not either of her parents. Have tried Robert with all his different places of birth (!) and also with his occs of hairdresser and barber, but can't find him. Do you know when he died, or is it possible they emigrated? I can't find her death via Ancestry's supposedly fully transcribed records, nor a re-marriage.

This birth is the next district along from the one she should have been registered in if born in Mottram (I think!) - have you investigated this birth?

Births Jun 1876
Williamson Zipporah Hayfield 7b 810

Ah, did she revert to her maiden name and remarry?

Marriages Jun 1911
Chambers Alfred N Liverpool 8b 100
McNamara Denis Liverpool 8b 100 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Murphy Mary Liverpool 8b 100
Williamson Zipporah Liverpool 8b 100 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

and this could be her death (right age):


Name: Zipporah McNamara
Death Registration Month/Year: 1958 Q3
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Liverpool North
County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 232

Yes, that's her, I'm sure. This is her spelling on the 1911 census (she may not have been quite re-married at this point as the census was taken right at the start of April, so she would have only had a day or two to tie the knot in Q2 1911!!). Denis is with her for this census.

MCNAMARA LIPPORAH F 1876 35 West Derby Lancashire

And guess where 'Lipporah' was born?!! Mottram!! lol

Her first marriage is listed on Cheshire BMD, 1891 at St John, Godley, and the 1911 one is on Lancashire BMD at Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne, Liverpool.

The 1911 census consists of:

Denis McNamara aged 38 b Woolton, Lancashire
Zipporah McNamara aged 35 b Mottram, Cheshire
Denis McNamara aged 4
Veronica McNamara aged 1

I can't work out what place of birth is recorded for the children (and don't know who their mother is, of course!) but they were both registered in West Derby district.

Denis senr is on the 1881 census with his parents, but can't see him easily after that except in 1911. He doesn't seem to have ever died -perhaps his job was connected to the sea and that's why he doesn't show up in 1891 and 1901 and the sea might have claimed him in the end?

Allan's in for a nice surprise when he comes back on line lol.

lol Rosie!

Denis senr has almost 30 pages of WW1 army papers availaible to view on Ancestry, so I'm just looking to see if they say anything esp interesting.

Originally enlisted in South Lancs Regiment 28th Oct 1890

Transferred to army reserve 3rd Dec 1898

Rejoined 10th Aug 1899

Discharged 10th Nov 1902

Rejoined 20th Aug 1914

Still serving 15th July 1919

Total service 16 years 92 days

Some of the above was in 1st Gunner Battalion, The Cheshire Regiment, but not sure when he changed over (probably 1914)? The dates explain him being missing on the two censuses! He applied for a pension after WW1.

When he was discharged 10th Sept 1919 (last posting in Gibraltar) his address was 26 Shakespeare Street, but I'm not sure if it says Garston or somewhere else? is/was there a Shakespeare St in Garston? It's on page 10866 of 41925 under Den(n)is McNamara if anyone wants to have a look......(sorry, I don't want to backtrack to see what spelling he was under.....he signs his name Denis, but some of the pen pushers prefer Dennis!)

His claim for a pension was for varicose veins, but it was rejected. He says he is married in 1919 but the wife and children bit of the form are blank.

A different page detailing his army discharge has a different address at the same date of 10th Sept 1919 - 2 McCauley St Edge Hill Liverpool, so that's a bit confusing! lol

19th Dec 1922 he is at 21 Hughes St Garston. Cheshire Regiment no 29305 issued British War Medal and Victory Medal.

He was a lance corporal in 1902 but reverted to private in 1914 and for the duration of WW1.

Nope - he was acting corporal in Jan 1919.

When he wrote the letter asking about a modified pension in 1919, he was living at 2 Macaulay St Edge Hill, so different spelling to above.

Ah, says he married a spinster named Zipporah Williamson 17th April 1911 (that's after the census!) at St Nicholas Liverpool.

Children,

Denis 11th June 1906 West Derby
Veronica 15th Oct 1909 West Derby
Margaret 26th Sept 1912 West Derby

His details in 1914:

height 5'9"
weight 151 lbs
eyes and hair grey
Religious denomination Roman Catholic

I can't see any sign of a birth reg for the last child Margaret. Should have mmn Williamson.

1915 Zipporah was living at 20 or 28 (probably 28?) Otway St Garston.

St Nicholas is C of E isn't it? So Denis married 'out' as it were, as he was RC.

So.......

did Zipporah really say she was a spinster in 1911?

was her first marriage legal?

what happened to Robert Walker?

did she and her daughter, Martha, not keep in touch?

Questions, questions...... lol

This is probably Denis's death - don't know why I missed it before:

Name: Denis McNamara
Death Registration: 1951 Q1
Age at death (estimated): 77
Registration district: Liverpool South
County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 1063

Yes, it says Garston.

Thanks Kate :)

sorry about the delay but we have no phoneline and are using a dongle...don`t know whether it`s the weather but we`ve been having connection problems...YES Merry ,,,Martha was my nan....allan:)

Having now read all the replies I am flabbergasted Merry....It makes me feel so inadequate...I`ll never be good at this...the one thing I am a little upset about is she died in 1958....I was 7....and I can`t remember her...heard loads and loads about her...and because of the Zipporah name, you obviously remember that name....thank you very very much Merry...Sakespeare st / Hughes St / Otway St are all "under the bridge "streets in Garston...
Martha lived in Clarence Grove OFF Otway St when she married Daniel Oakes..so they were obviously close....my nan Martha died a year before I was born in 1950 so my dad lost his mum before his nan....
NEVER heard of the Mc Namara family ...and don`t know of any in Garston...so My dad was born in 1926 , his elder brother in 1924...so Martha would have had step siblings aged 18 15 and twelve at the time....sorry Merry , but I have to go back to my tree...my dads cousin was named BENTHAM and I have never never found the connection...maybe its thru the Mc Namara line....back soon and thank you so much...you`re a star....allan:)

not very good at this...could the Zipporah who married Robert Walker have been Charlottes sister Zipporah b 1867 and I have the wrong Zipporah as my nan ???......I`m a little confused here....or is that talking silly ?...allan

Hi Merry...been doing a little backtracking....children of Robert Walker and Zipporah Williamson I have in my tree
Martha Walker my nan born 1894 Broadbottom
Vera Walker b 1901 (broadbottom or Garston ...don`t know)
James Walker b 1903 (Broadbottom or Garston...don`t know)
I remember my "uncle" Jim very well...don`t remember Veronica at all....so can I ask you say you found Martha in 1911 BUT NOT WITH PARENTS,,she would have been 16-17...is Veronica and James with her ??
1906 birth 1909 birth...both out of wedlock? then she marries....does Zipporah have Veronica and James with the Mc Namara children with her in 1911 ?....did Robert ever move to Garston with Zipporah ?.....I notice there is SEVEN years between Martha and Veronicas births....going to check on Veronicas PLACE of birth.....James died about 1964 so in BEXHILL ON SEA...if I can find his Death cert it should give his place birth....allan
allan

Willamson Zipporah b Jun qtr 1867
Williamson Zipporah d mar qtr 1868 ....aged 0 ...so the possibility of "the other Zipporah b 1867 being Roberts wife is a no no...
so I cannot find a VERA walker registered at all in Hayfield reg district (for Broadbottom )
a Vera Walker b 1906 West Derby (Garstons reg dist)...
far too many possibilities for a James Walker b West Derby...none in Hayfield
cannot find any Mc Namara / Williamson births.......allan:confused:

Two of the McNamara children were born before mother's maiden name was added to the GRO birth index, Allan (and before Denis and Zipporah's marriage), and we haven't managed to find the birth entry for Margaret who was born after.

I guessed you would say that about overlapping with her for a few years, but not knowing her.

I remember a bit more I didn't post yesterday - Veronica McNamara married a Bentham and had four sons and a daughter between 1930 and 1940. I had a look to see if any of them are on GR but don't seem to be. The children were all born in Liverpool. The reason I didn't post that before was that whan I found Veronica Bentham's death record her date of birth (on the death entry) didn't match up with the date of birth for Veronica McNamara on the army record for her father (at least I didn't think it matched - I haven't re-checked it!), so I thought I'd better not muddy the waters with info that might not be relevent. Sounds like it is though!!

Hope you are feeling a bit better after your slip up the other night?!

Veronica and James were born McNamara and are with Denis and Zipporah in 1911.

I'm not sure if I have the right Martha in 1911. Someone will have to view the image. She is listed as 'granddaughter' born Broadbottom aged 17 (which fits with age and place of birth in 1901), but she doesn't seem to be with any Williamsons or with John and Mary Walker who were Robert Walker's parents.

Could Vera Walker be an alternative name for Veronica McNamara/Bentham?

Here is her death:

Name: Veronica Bentham
Birth Date: 15 Nov 1909
Death Registration Month/Year: Jun 1989
Age at death (estimated): 79
Registration district: Blackpool and Fylde
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 40
Page: 567

and her father had her date of birth as 15th October 1909, which is more similar than I thought it was! lol

I'm talking b**** here! lol! Veronica is with the McNamaras. Who is James? Sorry I was getting him mixed up with Denis M junior. (sorry getting fed up with typing the word McNamara as my Ms and Ns get mixed up!)

Oh, is James a child from Zipporah's first marriage? He might be with Martha - I can't tell.

well that answers the Bentham query....my dad was quite close to the Bentham clan...I`ll check on all of those now....
backs still sore...awkward when you try to sleep...central Heating / hot water went off last thursday...came out monday but didn`t have the part...haven`t seen him since cos of the weather....more concerned about the cold than my back at present...bad start to the year for me...lol..
anyway...one of the Benthams played for EVERTON...so ,at last I can say "one of our family played for Everton....:d...thanks Merry..thanks Kiterunner....I`ll add the Bentham clan to my tree...should I add the Mc Namara clan on ??....suppose I should....allan;)

Allan, you don't know who the mother is of the McNamaras yet, (though my money is on Zipporah!)

Erm now let me see, Marg......

Martha Walker b in Broadbottom and living in Ashton under Lyne (district). I think she was 17 years.

Fanks very much :)

James and Vera were Marthas brother and sister...Zipporahs children to Robert Walker....I wonder if Robert is still under a patio somewhere...we do that in Liverpool you know...lol....allan:d

lol Allan!

I've looked at Vera Walkers b in Cheshire and Lancashire on the 1911 census. All of them are listed as daughter but none of them have a Robert Walker in the same house and they are not with Zipporah. So that's not helpful as it suggests all the Vras I have found are with different, unconnected parents.

That might mean its the wrong Martha then as her dad's parents were John and Mary Walker. *sulks*

Unless I've gone wrong somewhere - as I can't find a separate Martha in 1901.


Allan do you know which registration district your Martha was registered in for birth? If this isn't her in 1911 then there should be two birth regs, but I'm not sure which district Broadbottom is in.

In 1901 Allan's Martha says aged 7 b Broadbottom. Her parents are Robert (who vanishes but may have died) and Zipporah who is aliasing as Mrs McNamara in 1911 as she is getting married in two weeks! Martha isn't with them.

Allan, do you know who Vera Walker married?

Oh b*****, the school is closing because we have 1mm of snow :mad: I was just getting in to this! lol

Marg, Stop, Stop!! Sorry, Sorry!!

I did get it wrong and James and Jane Walker are the parents of Robert the barber.