Really stupid will Q
 

When there are executors listed in the probate index, are those named the people who probate was actually granted to, or the people named in the will as future executors? I'd always assumed it's the former, but what if the person named seems to have been dead for several years?!

:eek: Zombie executor :eek::eek:

This is driving me nuts!

Francis William Phipps b 1830ish Kent (Woolwich/Greenwich? I forget!). Married 1858 to Elizabeth Williams in Westminster, lived after that first in the Hounslow area and later in Braintree Essex. No children. His wife's niece, also Elizabeth Williams, lived with them until her marriage in 1900 to Charles Daniel Parsons.

Francis W Phipps died 1898 and his executors were his wife's niece Elizabeth and her future husband Charles D Parsons, an engraver (as he was on the census) and finally Robert Leslie, also an engraver if the probate is to be believed.

In my tree I have John Leslie Gosden b 1857 in Hounslow. He married my g-grandmother in 1881 in Battersea and one of the witnesses was Francis William Phipps.

John Leslie Gosden was an only child. His mother was also an only child - she was Mary Elizabeth Leslie b 1832 St Geo in the East. Her parents were Robert Leslie b Orkney 1808 and Alice Brown b 1812 in Whitechapel - they married in 1831 at St Geo in the East.

Robert Leslie was a cabinet maker not an engraver, but more importantly, he died in 1887, so he cant be FWP's executor.

It made sense to me that the two families could have known each other when they were all living in Hounslow and it seems likely to me that, as there must have been two men named Robert Leslie, they were related as the name isn't that common (around 40 in England in 1891) and of those one in Essex and half a dozen around London. What's the chances of knowing two unrelated men with the same fairly rare name?

Of course, having looked at FMP and UK census online, none of them are engravers or similar!

I'm off to work in a minute, so won't be back until 5 or so....

It seems more likely that a member of the Leslie family (who wasn't an engraver) was granted probate.

Considering how cheap wills are at the moment, I'd order it. That will give you addresses for all the executors. Also the date the will was written. Interesting that Charles Daniel Parsons was named. You'd think he might have snapped up Elizabeth immediately, rather than wait over a year to marry.

Do you think Robert might have been an apprentice who didn't take to the trade?

If you search for Robert Leslie with keyword engraver on FMP, there seems to have been one in Dundee around the time of WW1. I haven't looked at images or transcriptions though.

Thanks Phoenix. Of course, you are right about getting the will, but annoying to think of such a long wait!

Interesting about the one in Dundee, Kate. I can't imagine how he could fit, but I will have a look at that.

I'm only nosy abut the Leslie family in case a clue to what happened to John Leslie Gosden should come out of looking for people on the edges of his life. He vanished between 1881 and 1891. In 1892 his wife married my g-grandfather saying she was a widow, but I doubt she was, or if she was she may not have known it. His only child, (my great-aunt who I remember well) said he was dec'd when she married in 1924, but I don't know if she knew anything about him or could remember him at all. He was supposed to have gone to Australia to prospect for gold....

For what it's worth, my Robert Leslie's wife, Alice Brown (born about 1812 Whitechapel, father John Brown) could be related to Francis William Phipps' mother, Martha Brown born about 1800 in either Ringwood Hants or some place called Govely Farm Hants.

Could Robert Leslie have a nephew called Robert Leslie and he was the executor?

I would have thought if you made it to the probate register that you were an actual executor.

The only will I have, where the executors named in the will were not the actual executors, is too recent and doesn't name anyone on the index.

I agree that it would seem most likely the two Robert Leslie's are related. However, that would mean (if the two Roberts were uncle and nephew) Francis W Phipps asked his mother's sister's husband's brother's son to be his executor! And of course the Leslie family were from Orkney, so possibly not nearby.

Just looked and I can't even find any siblings for my Robert Leslie!