That marriage certainly looks like his sister, doesn't it? Why can't I find her on the 1861 census?

I think that death looks promising too. I don't really want to buy another death certificate at the moment - have bought too many certs just recently. Would it give an age?

That 1864 death is looking hopeful as then Eliza remarried:

Marriages Sep 1867

Russell Joseph Newent 6a 416
Williams Eliza Newent 6a 416


and on the 1871 census we have:

Worcestershire, Staunton:

Eliza Russell head wid (I think) 47 gloveress b Gloucestershire Upleadon (I think)
Thomas Russell son unm 25 farm (?) labourer, b same as mum
Margarett Russell dau unm 13 gloveress b Worcestershire Redmarley
William Bartless, visitor unm 35 farm labourer b Worcestershire Staunton

About three hours ago :rolleyes: I saw an Anne Hemms (or something similar) marrying in Newent District between 1841 and 1851 and found her in 1851 and she was born in Upleadon too.

Yes, the death cert would give an age and an informant.

Here's the death of Eliza's second husband:

Deaths Mar 1869
Russell Joseph 38 Newent 6a 184

1881 census Worcestershire Staunton

Eliza Russell wid 58 b Glou Upleadon
Thomer Williams son unm 37 b Worc Colwell ?? (OK so different place to 1871, but his name is Williams now!!!)
Rose Dyer boarder 8 b Worcestershire somewhere-or-other!

Oh Merry you are a genius! Well done.

So Margaret's surname is recorded under mother's new name, but Thomas must be her second husband's son.

Oooh, but Thomas Williams is older than the marriage to William Williams, isn't he?? ! lol

So, maybe he was really an Emms (*slight swearing* lol)

Good point, he cound be, but then why is he Williams in 1881?

So, you think he might be an illegitimate son then?

Interesting that they use the Williams surname, isn't it?

Going to Upleaden, this is the nearest I can find at the mo....a brother for Eliza?

WILLIAM HEMS Pedigree
Male
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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 FEB 1818 Upleadon, Gloucester, England

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Parents:
Father: JOHN HEMS Family
Mother: ELIZABETH
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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

Maybe he was called Williams whilst Eliza was married to William and it stuck? (except for when he was called Russell!!)

Thing is, we never know if the enumerator got his wires crossed when taking the info. It must have been easy to make an assumption about a surname and get it wrong.

Any ideas on what his birthplace actually is?