Help needed
 

After extensive research on other sites (Genes Reunited, Ancestry, GRO) I have been unable to find a birth record of my paternal grandmother. Census Records are nothing if not confusing. As I only know her father's name from her marriage certificate, but otherwise no further details.and her mother's name is also unknown, searching has been like looking for a needle in a haystack. Any tips where else I could look? Any tip would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Blue Crane :confused:

Welcome to the site, Blue Crane.

Could you please post any details you have on your grandmother?
We could start with the marriage and also any censuses you have found her on.

Have you tried FreeBMD or FreeREG or even the GRO index website? sometimes they are much more straightforward than the others. Several counties also have localised BMD and parish records (like LancsBMD).

Dont forget that sometimes the truth was not told (for many reasons) on marriage certificates and even birth certificates.

Do you want to let us know the time frame and location as someone here may know of local or specialised sites which might help. The members are also pretty good at teasing out a difficult identity in the census records.

Welcome to Genealogists' Forum Blue Crane :)

As others have said, if you would like us to help you with the search, if you could post anything you have regarding your grandmother (assuming she is deceased, as we don't allow details of living people to be posted here without their permission!), in particular all the details from her marriage certificate and also anything you know about her death (date or approximate date and place etc).

If you only want ideas, rather than for us to take on the challenge, then we would still need to know in which country you are expecting to find her along with approximate dates of her birth, marriage and death as knowing roughly when these events occurred can make a difference as to where you might look for her.

Help needed
 

Thank you all so much for offering to help me. I have gathered quite a lot of information since starting my search and a few other people have also tried to be of assistance, but we have all hit a blank wall regarding my grandmother's birth. i will gladly give you the information that I have,

I am looking for birth information of Margaret Ann Veronica Cecilia Cressey (quite a string of names) who was apparently born in Hull in 1876. On her marriage certificate (obtained from the GRO) her name is given as MAVC Cressey otherwise Margaret Ann Veronica Cecilia Foster. Her father's name is give as William Daniel Cressey (deceased) and his profession as Master Ships's Carpenter). She married my grandfather Eberhart Rudolph Hermann Fimpel in 1907. She and Eberhart later had 2 sons and their mother's name on their birth certificates is give as Cressey.

Here I must add that before her marriage she was a record-breaking cyclist and cycled under the name of Maggie Foster.

The census information that I have been able to find is as follows:
1881 Sculcoates Yorks. Margaret A Cressey dob 1876, granddaughter to John Toole from Limerick in Ireland.

1891 Lambeth Brixton Margaret Cressey 15, cousin of Geo Foster dob 1851 from Licolnshire, Geo Foster's wife is given as Mary.

Census 1901 also London, George Foster is suddenly 35 and not 50 as would be expected, Maggie Cressey is now 30 and not 25! No wife is mentioned. George's profession is given as Bicycle Maker (fits Maggie's later sporting activities).

Following her marriage the census records are correct. She died in London in 1945 was buried there.

This is quite a large lump of information the go through, but I have not given up hope that somewhere, someone will hit the jackpot as it were.

Once again many thanks for your offers to help. If you have any other question which you think might help, i would be happy to answer them if I can.

To start with, there only seems to be one William Daniel Cressey, born Hull 1853, married Kate Campbell Jan-Mar 1876 Hull Register Office or Registrar Attended, died 1915 Hull age 64.

Couldn't see a birth for a

Margaret Campbell for 1875/6 in Hull - just in case they weren't married before the birth.

There is no trace of them on the 1939 register. I assume this is because Eberhart was a foreign national? Or has anyone located the family?

For what it's worth, Margaret's date of birth on the 1939 Register is 14 Feb 1876.

The succession of names suggest that Margaret may have been born a Roman Catholic. Have you looked for Roman Catholic churches in Hull? Baptism records may still be with the church.

Goodness what a lot of work you have all done. Many thanks.
Kite runner, if the information on Maggie's marriage certificate is correct, her father died before her marriage in 1907.
Phoenix, Eberhart, despite his name, was English, born in London. The problem was that his surname was often spelt incorrectly (Fimple, Fimbel, Fimble). In 1939 he and Maggie must have been living in London, (Herne Hill, Hollingbourne Road I think). The idea that she was a Catholic is a distinct possibility and had occurred to me. Do you think the RC churches in Hull could still have such old registers? If so how could I find them?
Merry, the Dob is spot on.

She might easily have been told William Daniel Cressey was dec'd if he was no longer on the scene.

The chap Kate found seems to have been a carpenter as I've found him as a witness in a court case reported in Leeds Mercury 20 July 1876 (so just after that wedding date Kate posted). The article about the case is very long, but the events took place in Hull and WDC was employed as a carpenter by a Mr Scarr. WDC's evidence is all about the woodwork on this dodgy ship, so his occ seems spot on! The ship was called Derwent and it sailed 31 July 1875 in an unseaworthy state.

Sorry I should have posted the rest of this:

58 Hollingbourne Road, Camberwell. His dob is 23 Dec 1875 and they are both recorded as Theatre Managers. No one else in the household.

William Daniel seems to be a thoroughly dodgy character, with a succession of "housekeepers" on censuses. In 1901, his wife is called Elizabeth.

Did you see any children with him over the years, Phoenix?

In 1891 he has a housekeeper called Susanna Clinton b 1860 Hull, a daughter Elizabeth Cressey aged 12 and son Peter Cressey aged 5. No wife in the house and I can't find Susanna in 1881 at the moment.

Here's the birth regs for the children:

CRESSEY, ELIZABETH mmn CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS Volume 10A Page 695

CRESSEY, PETER mmn CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 214

So, the mother of the children would appear to be Kate Campbell who he married in 1876. In 1901 his wife is Elizabeth aged 36 from Derbyshire.

I can't see WDC in 1911 at the moment.

Oh yes.

Now, I can't find him in 1881, but I note that on 1861 he has a sister Margaret Ann b 1850. Their mother, Emma marries James Dunlop in 1858 and I note that Emma and James Dunlop have a son James:

DUNLOP, JAMES CRESSEY
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 188

This is the link to Margaret senior's marriage in 1877:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...F201837953%2F2


where she describes her father as William Cressey sailor, deceased

Here he is in 1911:


https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...677%2F0255%2F1

He's a widowed shipwright, aged 56 and has a son William aged 5 with him. And a Mrs (or Miss) Porte housekeeper also a widow with her two sons.

Here is the marriage of William's parents:

Marriages Dec 1851
Batty Emma Hull 22 409

CRESSEY William Hull 22 409

He was legitimate, sister Margaret wasn't.

Oh, in 1911 he is a shipwright and a widower, aged 56 (listed as W D Cressey). He has a housekeeper called Mrs Porte and it looks likely two of her adult children living with them. Also, though there is son William Cressey aged 5 born Hull.

This could be the marriage of WDC to Elizabeth who he is married to on the 1901 census:

Marriages Jun 1900
Cressey William Sculcoates 9d 405
Retalliek Elizabeth Ellen Sculcoates 9d 405

I can't match that surname to a birth reg or previous marriage and then a birth reg, to fit the 'b 1865 in Derbyshire' which is what shows on the census for WDC's wife in 1901, so it may not be the right marriage. That surname seems to originate in the West Country and is usually spelled Retallack or Retalleck.

This is probably the death of your Wililliam's partner though:

Deaths Dec 1902 (>99%)
Cressey Elizabeth 37 Sculcoates 9d 118

So, she can't be the mother of William b 1906ish. I can't see a birth reg for him.

Ooh, here's the son!!

PORTE, WILLIAM mmn SAWDON
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 186

I just found that :) but looked on this thread again just to make sure it hadn't been posted.

John Toole (Margaret's grandfather on the 1881 census) has a niece Kate Kennedy with him in 1901, age 30, single, born Grimsby. This could be her in 1871 - Catherine age 4, daughter of John Kennedy, age 43, a widower born Ireland:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=24544456

It seems her mother's maiden name was Stinson.

Not only have their aged changed but Maggie who was previously his cousin is now his sister-in-law!

This is the Kennedy family in 1861 and the wife is Margaret, age 36, born Hull:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=21946306

Maybe Margaret nee Stinson is a sister of John Toole's wife Ann? I haven't managed to find a marriage for either couple yet.

In March 1883 there's a George Foster, Bicycle and Manufacturing Company, Queen-street, Willenhall mentioned in the Penny Illustrated Paper - London, London, England. I should think this is the same George, but unfortunately I can't find him in 1881.

That would make sense.

It's surprising that in 1881 John and Ann Toole don't have any children (other than their granddaughter) living with them.

I found a possible Stinson family in Louth, Lincolnshire, in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=10027435

The father is Patrick, age 54, a licensed hawker born Ireland. Children James 20, Ann 16, Catherine 14, all born Hull, and Elizabeth 12 born Louth. Just trying to find them in 1841 to see if there is a Margaret.

I know that Ann Toole is only 42 on the 1881 census, but it would be quite normal for her to have lost a few years by then, especially if her husband was younger than her.

They are indexed as Stenskus, but there's no Margaret ;(

Unless the child that looks like it says Mary is actually Marg! :D

OOOH!!

Marriages Sep 1848

Askew Elisabeth Sculcoates 22 461
ASKEW Elizabeth Sculcoates 22 461
Hall Samuel Sheffield 22 461
HARDISTY Mary Sculcoates 22 461
Kennedy John Sculcoates 22 461 <<<<<<<<<<<
McAnaulty Mary Sculcoates 22 461
O DONNELL Neil Sculcoates 22 461
O'Donnell Neil Sculcoates 22 461
Smith William Sculcoates 22 461
STEENSON Margaret Sculcoates 22 461 <<<<<<<<<<<
TURNER John Thomas Sculcoates 22 461

There is a Peter Campbell / Ann Stinson marriage 1856 Great Grimsby. Did the name Campbell come up earlier? I will have to reread the thread!

Oh right, William Daniel Cressey married Kate Campbell in 1876. So the Ann Stinson / Peter Campbell marriage could well be significant!

Did you notice Catherine Stinson married 27 with family above neice to Barney Price.

I don't understand what you are saying!

In other news, are we saying Ann Stinson and Peter Campbell had a daughter, Catherine/Kate who married WDC and they had a daughter Margaret who then went to live with her bio-grandmother and bio-grandmother's partner, John Toole? <<<< EDIT - Post #46 of this thread, Phoenix finds a marriage for Ann Campbell and John Toole Q3 1872, so they here husband and wife. not partners.

Just for the record, this is long term lodger, William McGrath and family in 1871:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...c&pId=10075500

He actually did get married, to Susannah Sands. But he's not living next door to John Toole.

On that 1851 census link that Kiterunner posted

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=10027435

Yes, I think so. Catharine Campbell birth registered Oct-Dec 1856 Caistor district (which included Grimsby at the time), MMN Steinson. Vol 7A p 555.