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John Saunders (Week 3 - FFFMF)
Here's one to maybe get your teeth into!
Name - "official" name and what they were known as John Saunders Date and place of birth Unknown Names of parents Unknown Date and place of baptism - if applicable Unknown Details of each of his or her marriages - if any Unknown Occupation(s) - if any On daughter's marriage cert dated Nov 1854: Coal Merchant Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!). Unknown Date, place and cause of death Unknown Date and place of burial. Unknown Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable Unknown Memorial inscription - if any Unknown I've deliberately not loooked into this today. Probably last tried when the 1841 census became available on Ancestry. Clues: His dau (my 2xgg-gm) was Elizabeth Saunders b abt 1831 in Bristol (according to all census records after her marriage) This is most likely to be her in 1841: Abedego Matthew 50 Mary Matthew 60 James Duffett 8 George Andrews 8 Samuel Churchill 5 Mary Saunders 10 <<<<<<<<<<possible sister or even twin, or maybe a cousin or not connected at all?! Elizabeth Saunders 10 <<<<<<<<<<< Mine??? The above people are in Mangotsfield where Elizabeth's future husband was from. There are other possible matches for Elizabeth and obviously possibly quite a few if you consider all the possible spelling variants (which I don't think I have). Abednego Matthew was a school teacher and the children are listed as pupils. I don't seem to have any record or possible record for Elizabeth in 1851. |
Who are the witnesses on Elizabeth's marriage cert?
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William Sheppard Heath and Mary Ann Lane.
They are a bit odd as Mary Lane was the name of Wm S Heath's wife, but they had been married five years or so by the time my relatives married (obviously I don't known if Mary Ann Lane is actually the same person as Mrs Mary Heath!). I spent forever researching this couple backwards and sideways etc only to eventually discover in 1851 or 61 (I forget now) Wm was the sexton of St James in Bristol where the marriage of my rellies took place! I guess they may have been serial witnesses (or at least he was). |
Ooh, I was getting all excited about a John Saunders, coal merchant, 2 Church Row, Weston, listed in the Bath Post Office Directory of 1876-7, but then I realised his full name was John Saunders Baker! I wonder whether there's a connection, though.
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Blimey! lol
I reckon he was only an occasional coal merchant and that is putting me off! I would think someone was paying for those children to be staying in the schoolmaster's house in 1841, suggesting a parent was still around somewhere.......Pity we can't search occs in 1841 :( |
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?...c=&pid=7600478
Can anyone see this family (right at the top of the page) in 1841? I am trying to find out who Marian's late husband was. I'm thinking Stapleton is in Bristol and she has a dau Elizabeth and saying 'no business' suggests they had one when her OH was alive. |
There's a William Sanders, aged 10, in the Stapleton Poor Asylum in 1841; not sure if it's the same William as in 1851, especially as it says born out of county.
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Thanks Mary. I've found Wm Henry in 1861 married to Hannah Michael from Abergavenny. The marriage isn't on the pilot site for fathers name though.
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Drat - a notice in the Bristol Mercury tells me that Marian died 19th August 1851, but not who she was the widow of.
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There's a John Saunders will from 1842 listed in the Bristol Wills Index, which I don't remember ever seeing before (the index, I mean, not that entry):
http://www.bristol.gov.uk/ccm/conten...s-1781-1858.en It doesn't give occupations though. |
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I came across the Bristol Wills index a few months ago whilst looking for some pesky peple called Ariel! At the time I'd not touched this part of my tree for ages, so only looked for a couple of my 'names' - another reason why doing this weekly review is so great!
I think I might ask the local reg office to look at the 1851 death cert and I'll buy it if it says Marion was the widow of John (whatever his occ!), and investigate the will too. (will look harder at the Bristol Mercury in 1842 as well) I'm not that confident these are the right people though (here what you say, Mary, about Marion's age) and just wish I could find the daughter, Laura Louisa (or whatever that name says) ANYWHERE else! I see there are a lot of Bristol marriages on the pilot site with fathers names, but that isn't helping me with this specific problem. |
Mary, I've looked for a post 1837 marriage for Mario/an to a Saunders and can't find anything, so would hope they were married by 1841, but that's not helping find her!
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There should be an entry for the John Saunders 1842 will in the Index to Death Duties Register on findmypast but I'm not sure how much info it has for an entry of that period.
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Gee......you know who your friends are don't you????? I still haven't got a reply from them to see if I can buy that will......that was ages ago. |
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:D:D:D:D Quote:
Death Duty Register Entry Testator: John Saunders Residence: Bristol Executors: James Saunders of Brewers Row, Westminster (I think it says Westminster??) Court: County, Bristol Register: 1 Folio: 208 So..........I don't know! lol Is there anywhere in Bristol that looks like Westminster? Off to see how many million streets called Brewers Row there are!! |
There was a Brewers Row in the real Westminster, so presumably the executor lived (or worked) there. Maybe we can find him on the 1841 and / or 1851!
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Can't see him at Brewers Row in 1851 but I only found the odd numbers so far, and 5 houses uninhabited.
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Okay, 1841 at Brewers Row, Westminster:
John Saunders 36 Painter J N William Do 16 Tin Plate Worker Ap Y Susan Do 14 N Sarah Do 10 Y John Do 7 Y Charlotte Do 3 Y James Do 26 Painter J N Lucy Kelly 77 N |
Thanks Kate - I've been on child taxi duty! I'll investigate those people......
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Marriages Jun 1860 EDWARDS Harriet Halifax 9a 613 Morgan William Lewis Halifax 9a 613 NIXON Reginald John [SL]aye Halifax 9a 613 Saunders Laura Louisa Halifax 9a 613 |
Oooh, well done, thanks very much Mary. Looks as if I must have accidentally searched Gloucestershire and Somerset only!! Good job you looked as I probably wouldn't have tried again!
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This is Laura's death:
Deaths Mar 1914 Nixon Laura L 80 Chorlton 8c 1196 and she's living in Chorlton in 1911 with her two daughters. Her birthplace is coming up as Bristol on the free search. |
Mary, you can stop looking for them! Am I allowed to swear?
Groom's Name: Reginald John Saye Nixon Groom's Birth Date: Groom's Birthplace: Groom's Age: Bride's Name: Laura Or Lawia Louisa Saunders Bride's Birth Date: Bride's Birthplace: Bride's Age: Marriage Date: 12 Apr 1860 Marriage Place: Halifax, York, England Groom's Father's Name: Francis Nixon Groom's Mother's Name: Bride's Father's Name: William Henry Saunders Bride's Mother's Name: Groom's Race: Groom's Marital Status: Single Groom's Previous Wife's Name: Bride's Race: Bride's Marital Status: Single Bride's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01864-0 System Origin: England-EASy Source Film Number: 1542265 Reference Number: it 3, p 85, rn 170 Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973 |
Haven't found them the in 1861, but in 1871, Laura (married) and numerous children are living in Ovenden, near Halifax.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?...=&pid=25841763 |
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She has the wrong dad, Mary ;(
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No it isn't. |
Guess what Reginald's occupation was? :) :)
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Still, at least you know you can rule that one out. |
lol Mary! Back to square one again. Thanks for your help though (and Kate's)
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Im watching this thread Merry as I have a james Saunders b abt 1800, in tree but dont know birthplace except his daughter Eliza married and lived shropshire and wocestershire
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Bristol and Avon FHS offer a Burgess Books Service where you can request a lookup, so you could try that:
http://www.bafhs.org.uk/services/bri...rgessindex.htm Link for terms and conditions: http://www.bafhs.org.uk/services/services.htm |
Gosh Kate - I'm not sure my rellies would be grand enough to appear! Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Thank you.
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OK starting again; another set of records to play with;
Possible entry for the bap of my 2xg-grm: Name: Elizabeth Saunders Gender: Female Baptism/Christening Date: 05 Dec 1830 Baptism/Christening Place: St Augustine-the-Less, Bristol, Gloucester, England Father's Name: John Saunders Mother's Name: Ann Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01086-8 System Origin: England-EASy Source Film Number: 1596311 Reference Number: item 4 p 275 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Possible sibling: Name: Selina Ann Saunders Gender: Female Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Jul 1832 Baptism/Christening Place: St Augustine-the-Less, Bristol, Gloucester, England Father's Name: John Saunders Mother's Name: Ann Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01086-8 System Origin: England-EASy Source Film Number: 1596311 Reference Number: item 5 p 23 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 another one: Name: John Saunders Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 16 Oct 1825 Baptism/Christening Place: St. Augustine-the-Less, Bristol, Gloucester, England Father's Name: John Saunders Mother's Name: Anne Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01086-7 System Origin: England-EASy Source Film Number: 1596311 Reference Number: item 4 p 128 Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 There are others in Bristol, parents John and Ann, but I'm focusing on the ones at the same church for the time being. For ref, others from the pilot site are: James - bap 25th Dec 1825 church not showing on record (perhaps unlikely following John's bap 2 months earlier?) George Augustus - bap 23rd Sept 1827 St. Phillip and St. Jacob's Mary Ann - bap 8th Feb 1829 St. Phillip and St. Jacob's (could be the other girl in the school in 1841!) |
No sign of a marriage or death for Selina Ann after 1837.
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I checked the Elizabeth Saunders baptisms with fathers called John on the Bristol baptisms CD yesterday, Merry, and the occupation for that one was servant (residence Anchor Lane).
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... and Selina Ann's father was a master mariner, of Harford Street, Bedminster. Sorry!
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Oh Merry isnt she one of yours Ester Merry Saunders lol
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John 1825 looks to have the same father as Selina Ann, as he is a seaman (residence Frogmore Street).
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