Info on certs?
 

On a marriage cert. in the ‘father’s profession’ column it says ‘deceased’.

Would this have been checked by the registrar (or someone in authority) or could it just be made up by the son/daughter?

thank you

You don't say when this was, but generally No, no checks would be made.

Having said that, I have hundreds of marriage certs in my files and I've not got any that say dec'd for the father when he wasn't! Quite a few the other way about where the father is not recorded as dec'd but he was, but that's probably generally where the celebrant didn't ask the question about dead or alive.

Could be the bride or groom had been told by their mother that their father was dead although he wasn't really.

Hmmmmm ... well it’s Herbert Edwin Crawford, who appears on Gramps’ 1920 marriage cert as Gramps’ father.

Herbert remains a mystery.

Gramps was the illegitimate son of Anne/Annie Green and started life as John Isaac Green.
After the 1911 census and before enlisting in the Marines in 1914, he changed his name to Richard Crawford.

No father is mentioned on his birth cert.

Par for the course in my family! No one wanted to let the inlaws know they were illegitimate, so they invented a conveniently dead father for the marriage certificate.

OC

Oh poooo
That’s not very helpful of them :(

It's always possible he was a real person - maybe Herbert should have been Albert or Bertram or Edwin should have been Edward etc.

I know I should remember all this, but I don't. Did Annie Green ever marry?

Yes.
She married George Tucker in 1901.
They went on to have a family and I assume lived happily ever after.

She was working as a domestic servant for Isaac Birnbaum. The Birnbaum family was from Poland, which was then part of Russia.

If only some pics of the Birnbaums would come to light, we might see a family resemblance.

Merry, can I pm you?

And Richard/John Isaac was 'adopted' by the Lovell couple? Unusual for a couple to adopt when they already had three (?) children. Do you know if Annie was related to them?

None of which helps at all with HEC!

And the Lovells were quite old to adopt.
No I have no further info re the Lovell connection but there was a childrens’ home of some kind in Kensington ... same street as the Lovells as far as I can remember.
I don’t have all my notes with me.

I only started looking into this again when I was wandering through Ancestry the other week and found Herbert Edwin on a few public trees!

There were birth and death years (death 1949) so I contacted the owner of one tree and she said she copied it from ******* ******** but hadn’t checked it.
Doh! ******* ******** is my niece in law.

I looked on FMP, which is where she found it, BUT this is for a Herbert Crawford.
There are a few of those and absolutely nothing linking any of them to the family.

They all look like they are copied from each other.

I'm going out for a walk now, but I'll have a look and see what info they have when I get back.....

I think it’s just a silly thing the niece picked because she thought it sounded nice!

I’m still thinking the father is one of the Birnbaums.

Can I pm you? probably not sensible to put it on here.

Feel free!

The Herbert Crawford they have linked to is the one b 28 Mar 1872 (1939 Register) and who married Annie Maud Emmens in 1901 in Wandsworth (FreeBMD). They are still together in 1939. In 1911 and 1939 that Herbert was a general labourer at the V & A Museum.

Ta
Sounds like a load of ******************** lol

I think it said on Gramps’ 2nd marriage cert (in Scotland) that his father was an Engineer.
Gramps was too.



I’ll have to message you on fb messenger

This is too small and complicated for me to do anything sensible

Or I could email you

Or both
x

lol I find messenger too small! Have you still got my email?

I'd forgotten about the Scottish marriage. I remembered engineer came into it somewhere!

I'd completely forgotten Annie's father was an engineer too!