William Garlick/Whittaker FMFFF (40)
 

Another shambles.
Speculative information in green[/COLOR]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
William Whittaker Garlick
Date and place of birth
About 1800, Lancashire (maybe Hollinworth, Oldham?)
11 October 1799 Hollinwood
Names of parents
Not known
Thomas Whittaker Garlick and Alice Andrews
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Not known
11 November 1799 St Mary hollinwood Oldham Lancs
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
None found
20 September 1819 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich to Elizabeth Davenport
Occupation(s) - if any
Plumber (1841) Housepainter on son's marriage cert.
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census
c 1822 Tinker Lane Hollinwood Oldham
1833 Great Ancoats St Manchester
Sudell St Manchester
Oldham Rd Manchester
1841 George Leigh St Ancoats Manchester
1843 Lancaster Gaol
Date, place and cause of death
before 10 August 1854,
Date and place of burial.
10 August 1854 St Mary Hollinwood
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Not known
Memorial inscription - if any
Not known

Notes: William Garlick/Whittaker had four known children, probably more, with Elizabeth (unknown). The four children were baptised with the surname GARLICK and use this surname until some time between 1841 and 51, when they all start using the surname Whittaker. (Because their father was bankrupt and in gaol?)

A Betty Garlick married a JAMES Whittaker in 1816 at St Margaret's Hollinwood. This is probably irrelevant now.

There was another William Whittaker of the same age in the area who was a house painter. He is not my William Whittaker as I have tediously proved, his son who has the same name as my 2 x GGF (Edward/Edmund) married someone else.

Any thoughts on this would be very welcome. Obviously I cannot get any further back until I know whether his surname was really Garlick or Whittaker.

OC

OC, where is Elizabeth Garlick/Whittaker in 1851?

Merry

She's at 34 Blossom St St George Manchester, H0107/2225 ???? as Elisabeth Whitaker (one T) aged 51.

In 61 she is at 31 Heaton St, Ardwick, Manchester, aged 61 (two TTs) in 71 at 37 Meridian St Ardwick, aged 71.

OC

Did Alice die? Do you have her death cert?

I assume Alice died but no, I don't have her death cert. The Garlick/Whittakers werent keen on registration!

OC

Hmmm....see what you mean!

Connected?

Death
Name: Sarah Garlick Whittaker
Year of Registration: 1864
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Oldham
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 355


Did son Thomas G/W (aged 7 in 1841) marry Jane Bowers in 1854? I wondered what he said about his father on his marriage cert? (or what any of them said for that matter)

More bits:

Death
Name: William Whittaker Garlick
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Chorlton
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 283

Marriage
Name: Edward Whitaker Garlick (to Ellen RIDDELL, Lancs BMD)
Year of Registration: 1843
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 650

Birth
Name: Mary Eleanor Whit*Ker Garlick
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 718





(Apologies for probably going over old ground!)



Oh and what's this about? (from Ancestry)

UK, Extracted Probate Records
Thomas Whittacre Garlick
April 1836
Hollinwood P. Oldham
Book: Marriage Licences Granted within the Diocese of Chester. (Marriage)
Collection: Cheshire: Chester - Wills and Administrations, 1834-1837

??

Name: Thos Garlick Or Whitaker
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 08 Sep 1765
Baptism/Christening Place: ROYTON,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice Whitaker
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01483-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 215608
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Oooh, thankyou Merry, I had some of that info but not all of it. It's looking as if the Garlick/Whittaker confusion goes back many years.

I have Edward's MC to Ellen Riddell. It is cleverly laid out so that either Garlick or Whittaker could be the surname, which is why it took me 40 years to find it - the GRO have it as Garlick and I wasn't looking for that name! He states his father is William Garlick Whittaker, a housepainter.

(Ellen Riddell is relatively new info for me, for many years I had Edward Whittaker, father William Whittaker, a housepainter, married to Ellen Kenyon. Wrong! Parallel family).

OC

Google Books


The bankrupt directory: being a complete register of all the bankrupts, with their residences, trades, and dates when they appeared in the London gazette, from December 1820 to April 1843

Page 156

Garlick, William Whittaker, Manchester, plumber, March 16th, 1838

OC, you need to look at the London Gazette

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Choose London and Advanced search. Put William Whittaker in the exact match box and Garlick in the next box. You should get four matches and three are your man. This computer (OH's) is being difficult, but I did manage to see one of the pages which says Wm was in Lancaster jail!! I can't view that page at the same time as typing here so it's frustrating. Two of the entries are in 1843. so I'm thiking he was alive then.

Oh Merry! What a fantastic find!

His great granddaughter Ethlina, the biggest snob who ever walked this earth, must be spinning in her grave!

Thankyou thankyou!

OC

lololol!! Maybe that's why Mrs Garlick changed her surname? Oh, the shame!!

I did look to see if Wm was still languishing in jail in 1851 but I couldn't see any obvious matches. There are some prisioners with virtually no details though. Perhaps they separated when he went to prison and afterwards she wasn't sure if he was dead or alive? ]

Oh, I'be just remembered......One of those Gazette entries mentioned all Wm's addresses and I thought one of them was Elizabeth's 1851 address, but OH's computer battery died at the very moment I was about to check!!

Nope, I was mistaken!

There's another Gazette entry under William Whitaker (one T) Garlick.

It's for the dissolution of a business partnership with Thomas Dickinson dated 10th Dec 1836.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../2564/page.pdf

They lived at Great Leigh St in 1841, that's probably what you remembered.

OC

must get washing in

Well what a turn up, eh! Funny, I did once think I bet he's in prison, but that was really more of a spiteful dig at him than an actual serious thought.

Lancaster Gaol has a list of prisoners but not those in for debt unfortunately.

Oooh, I wonder if he died in there? Off for a look.

OC

A-HA! got his death!

1854 Sept William Whittaker Garlick, Chorlton 8c 283, so he was out of jail by then and living with ?wife? son? daughter?.

I shall have to send for this cert as it will be interesting to see who registered the death.

Thankyou so much for your help Merry, as usual you have made me refocus, as well as providing me with new info.

OC

EDIT - silly old fool! (Me, that is). You already gave me that death but I was trying to fit it to someone else!

I don't suppose you're interested in John Garlick Holden, born c. 1812 and died in Kirkham in 1901? :)

pmsl!!!!

Oooh, actually Mary, I do have a special interest in Holdens of Kirkham and have been looking for a missing link for ten years.

It would be astonishing if the missing link was Garlick and not Holden as I had always presumed.

OC

Found his burial on LancsOPC if you want to have a look.

Thankyou Mary, I've found that but can't take him backwards unfortunately.

I'll take him off this thread though, otherwise I'm going to get into a mess here.

OC

OC, do you think this man, Thomas Whittaker Garlick.......

Name: Thos Garlick Or Whitaker
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 08 Sep 1765
Baptism/Christening Place: ROYTON,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice Whitaker
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01483-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 215608
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


is the same person as this dead man.......

UK, Extracted Probate Records
Thomas Whittacre Garlick
April 1836
Hollinwood P. Oldham
Collection: Cheshire: Chester - Wills and Administrations, 1834-1837

(the will is also on the Lancs Wills Index)

and he is the father of your William via this baptism?:

Name: Wm. Garlick
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Nov 1799
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARGARET CHADDERTON,HOLLINWOOD,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 11 Oct 1799
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thos Garlick
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Alice
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03320-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 990079
Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


If we could find Wm in 1851 with the right birthplace it would be simple! lol Maybe the 1836 will might sort out something?

Merry

Yes, that is a distinct possibility I think. Some of the children were bap at St Margaret's, so William Garlick had connections with that church.

The Royton connection is REALLY worrying me now. My missing link Holden was from Kirkham but his antecedents were from Royton.

I like Cheshire Wills site! I will order that one.

OC

That's interesting about the baps. Was there a bap for this dau?

The Manchester Times and Gazette (Manchester, England), Saturday, January 12, 1833

Deaths

On the 4th instant, after a few days illness, Elizabeth, the only and beloved daughter of Mr William Garlick, painter, of Great Ancoats Street in this town, aged one year.

Oooh, clever Merry! no, don't have that daughter.

I have a terrible confession to make. St Margaret's records are not on line but someone went and had a look at them for me and sent me transcripts, which I carefully copied out...I don't know WHATI have done with the bit of paper, but I do have

Edmund (or Edward) Garlick/Whittaker 1822
William Garlick/Whittaker bp 14 Mar 1830 St Margaret Hollinwood
Thomas Garlick Whittaker c 1834
Alice Garlick Whittaker c 1839

I am sure there must have been other chldren (but my contact didn't find any more at St Margaret. I didn't realise then that they had moved to Manchester by 1833, as per your newspaper item above. I will have another look for baps with that in mind, although I know I did a very thorough search all over Lancs.

OC

Maybe the others were under Whitaker?!!

Oh, I didn't actually really mean that, but:

No record of Edward/Edmund....then......(all submitted)


William Garlick Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 14 MAR 1830 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth




Elizabeth Whittaker (the one who died and is in the paper)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 13 MAY 1832 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England

Death: 07 JAN 1833
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth


Thos. Henry Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 14 DEC 1834 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth



is this Alice?



Jane Alice Elizabeth Whittaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 06 OCT 1839 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: William Whittaker
Mother: Elizabeth


There are also these girls, but that newspaper suggested Wm's first dau was Elizabeth, so these two may be red herrings:

39. Helena Devenport Whittaker - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 MAY 1821 Hollinwood, Lancashire, England

40. Eleanor Devenport Whittaker - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 14 OCT 1827 St Margaret, Hollinwood, Lancashire, England


Oh and if Alice was actually Jane Alice, then:

Births Sep 1839
Whittaker Jane Alice Manchester 20 462

That birth is also on Lancs BMD and it's in Ancoats sub district.

:D

Of course if Wm was just acknowledging the death of his only surviving dau rather than his only dau, and those two with the middle name Devenport are his and Devenport is Elizabeth's maiden name, then this would be nice:

ELIZABETH DEVENPORT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 SEP 1799 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN DEVENPORT
Mother: JANE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.


Making Wm and Eliz's last known child named for both their mothers! (If Wm's parents were Thomas and Alice, that is!!)

I think my leap of faith is too big!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I played with Elizabeth Davenport before and dismissed her, cannot remember why now without a good rummage through my notes. Ah, maybe because one of the grandchildren marries a Davenport, although why that should rule her out.......yes, alfred Whittaker,1861 son of Edward/Edmund Whittaker Garlick, marries an Elizabeth Davenport in 1882. Ah yes, she died and Alfred shoved off to South Africa and remarried and then died out there. Tree on Ancestry etc.

Those subs are new to me but they do have definite dates, which I always think is reassuring, don't you.

Why would William and Eliz take their children back to Hollinwood to have them baptised, I wonder? I need to tread carefully because of the OTHER William Whittaker, who led me so fearfully astray for many years.

OC

Well, if your researcher thought they were called Garlick and the person with the submitted entries thought they were Whittaker, then I think the best move might be for someone else to look at the PRs once and for all, to see EXACTLY what is said (and for the Devenport ones).

I can't imagine why they went back to Hollinwood, but the death notice in the paper ties in with the bap of Elizabeth. I wonder if she was buried there? (I guess so, as it's unlikely the submitter would have made the connection otherwise).

Erm are you going to ask the registrar about that birth cert for Jane ALice in1839? If the parents are Wm and Elizabeth you will have a maiden name to go on!

Just in case you thought it was all sewn up, who's this

Jane Garlick bp 25 Jun 1815, Collegiate, Manchester, d/o William Garlick, painter and Elizabeth, of Salford.

Has to be a red herring, surely, William and Elizabeth were only 16 in 1815!

OC

EDIT Unfortunately, Hollinwood regs aren't available through the IGI. I will have to see if I can bully my brother (again) or find my bit of paper....I suspect the submitted ones were submitted by a Whittaker descendant, probably the ones in SA, who would only know the family as whittaker and would think that Garlick was a funny middle name...or maybe they submitted as Whittaker for ease of continuity!

OC

*ignores first bit of last post*

At great personal effort, I have got up from the sofa and gone into a coldroom to switch on the desktop computer which has the NBI disk in the coffee cup holder. I found these:

Elizabeth Whittaker aged 11 months bur 7th (month illegible) 1833

Jane Alice Elizabeth Whittaker aged 2 bur 16th July 1841

Fits with:

Deaths Sep 1841
GARLICK Jane Alice Elizabeth Manchester 20 345

Elizabeth Whittaker aged 78 bur 8th April 1878

which fits with:

Deaths Jun 1878
WHITTAKER Elizabeth 78 Chorlton 8c 388

and

William Whittaker aged 54 bur 10th Aug 1854

which fits with the Garlick death reg posted yesterday!

:D

lol forgot to say all those burials are at Hollinwood!

Oh thankyou and well done, hope you had a thick cardi on!

They lost an awful lot of children, didn't they. There's a suspicious gap in the births, not many in the 1820s and those all die except Edward. Arsenic/lead poisoning, perhaps!

OC

Hmmm..... I suppose all the Elizabeth's (ie Wm's wife) on the baps were the same woman?

I will have another check of the burials tomorrow, as I only searched for certain ones. Also forgot to check Garlick! lol

The Hollinwood Whittaker baps are on the FS pilot site. I clicked the button that says 'about these records' and amongst other things it states:

Record Description
The index is an electronic database of information transcribed from original records.


I'm going to type out the baps here (everything that is Wm and Eliz Whittaker) in the right order and without duplicates, as I get confused otherwise:

27th May 1821 Helena Devenport
28th July 1822 Edward ....................(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)
14th Oct 1827 Eleanor Devenport
14th Mar 1830 William .....................(bap is listed under Garlick on FS pilot, father Wm Whittaker G mother Eliz. With Wm and Eliz 1841)
11th Dec 1831 Mary
18th May 1832 Elizabeth
14th Dec 1834 Thomas Henry ...........(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)
8th Feb 1835 James
22nd Jan 1837 John
6th Oct 1839 Jane Alice Elisabeth .....(with Wm and Eliz, named Edmund Garlick, in 1841)


So, some of them are very close together! There are no Garlick baptisms (Wm and Eliz)

As I said, I'll look at the burials again tomorrow.

Ah, a few there I don't have.

I have Edward born 2 June 1823, baptised 28 July 1823, s/o William Whittaker and BETTY, a painter of Tinker Lane.

Don't forget, there is another William Whittaker around, with a wife Elizabeth/Betty, so some of those could be theirs. The "other" William Whittaker was around on the 1841 census, waiting for me to pick him up thinking he was mine....

Off to bed now, cannot see straight. Thankyou so much for all your help today.

OC

Oooh, this looks like the burial of the above. Age perfect!

Thos Whittaker
Abode: Hollinwood
10th Feb 1836
Age 71
Hollinwood St Margaret

There are two Alice Whittaker burials that could be his wife - both the wife of a Thomas Whittaker. One is March 1818 aged 48 and the other March 1830 aged 62.

Goodnight OC.

Some of the baps were Betty and some Elizabeth, but I guess there are two couples and it may be that some of the children will never be matched with the right parents. Those two that were Devenport were one mum as Betty and one Eliz, so clearly not separate forenames!