View Full Version : seabrook/hazell
I am interested in find more about.
John Seabrook Perfumer in Chiswell Street,Nr Finsbury Sq in1796.
He married Hannah Hazell at St John Hackney on 17 July 1816.
kiterunner
01-12-14, 22:21
He is a bachelor on his marriage to Hannah, so are you sure he is the same John who was a perfumer in 1796? Also, if they are the parents of John Seabrook who was baptised 25 Aug 1819 at the City of London Lying-In Hospital in Finsbury, the baptism record gives the father's occupation as carter (or possibly porter?). Abode is Grays Inn Lane. Or is that a different family?
kiterunner
02-12-14, 10:07
I don't know whether you already have this, Bert, but there is a Samuel Seabrook who married a Frances Bedford 24 Jun 1855 at St Pancras. Samuel was full age, a bachelor, carpenter, residence Grove Street, father John Seabrook, perfumer. Frances was full age, a widow, residence Grove Street, father Francis Starr, plumber. Witnesses John Cross and M Buckeridge.
kiterunner
02-12-14, 10:22
1861 census
Mulberry Tree, Market Street, Warwick, Warwickshire
Samuel Seabrook Head Mar 37 Carpenter Middlesex Finsbury
Frances Do Wife Do 38 Warwicksh Birmingham
John Lewis Lodger Un 40 Booksellers Canvasser Warwicks Wootten Wawen
kiterunner
02-12-14, 10:27
And Samuel's baptism is in the non-conformist records:
Christ Church Spitalfields, Middlesex (Wesleyan)
1829 Nov 29 born Sep 30, Samuel, parents John & Leah Seabrook, No 7 Browns Buildings, Clifton St, Finsbury, perfumer.
kiterunner
02-12-14, 10:53
I really must go out shopping, but just before I do, there are two more Wesleyan baptisms to add:
Church Street, Spital Fields, London
Martha born Mar 2d, bap Ap 13 1823, parents John & Leah Seabrook, Shoreditch, weaver
Thomas born Oct 10 baptizd Decr 17 1826, parents John & Leah Seabrook, 10 Swan Street, Minories, perfumer.
There is an 1822 marriage between John Seabrook, bachelor, and Leah Giles, spinster, at St Botolph Without Bishopgate.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31281_A101349-00107/15247?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dlmamarriages%26ra nk%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook%26 gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleah%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1% 26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3 d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d15247%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26ml_rp os%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Both sign their names and the witnesses were Hannah Giles and ? Goodchild.
Several newspaper reports from August 1832 on the partnership between Hayden Samuel and John Seabrook, perfumers, Worship Street, being dissolved.
1841 census:
29 Holywell Lane Shoreditch
John Seabrook 45
Leah 45
Martha 25 waistcoat maker
Thomas 14 apprentice wood engraver
Samuel 11
There is an 1822 marriage between John Seabrook, bachelor, and Leah Giles, spinster, at St Botolph Without Bishopgate.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31281_A101349-00107/15247?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dlmamarriages%26ra nk%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook%26 gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleah%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1% 26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3 d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d15247%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26ml_rp os%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Both sign their names and the witnesses were Hannah Giles and ? Goodchild.
This John was a bachelor, what was the status of the one who married Hannah Hazell? (I had been waiting for them to be father and son, but that doesn't seem likely if they were both bachelors!)
1841 census:
29 Holywell Lane Shoreditch
John Seabrook 45
Leah 45
Martha 25 waistcoat maker
Thomas 14 apprentice wood engraver
Samuel 11
Sorry, all Yes for born in county.
1841 census:
29 Holywell Lane Shoreditch
John Seabrook 45
Leah 45
Martha 25 waistcoat maker
Thomas 14 apprentice wood engraver
Samuel 11
Ooh - well done. That one eluded me for some reason.
Leah died in the last quarter of 1841.
Here is John with Thomas, a niece named Elizabeth and a lodger in 1851 living in Islington. John, was born in Tring, Herts, recorded as formerly being a manufacturer or perfumer. He is blind.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1502_1502-0612/2553262?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dthomas%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook% 26gsln_x%3dNN%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh %3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d13%26h%3d25532 62%26recoff%3d5%2b6%26ml_rpos%3d14&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
3 Norfolk Place, Islington
John Seabrook, head, wid, 56, formerly a manufacturing perfumer, born Herts, Tring. Blind
Thomas Seabrook, son, 24, engraver on wood, born Middlesex, St Botolph
Elizabeth Sear, niece, 28, straw bonnet maker, born Herts, Tring
Samuel ????m 34, lodger, drug agent, born Herts, Tring
Maybe..
Name: John Seabrook
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 22 Jun 1794
Baptism Place: Tring,Hertford,England
Father: John Seabrook
Mother: Martha
and maybe....
Name: Martha Barber
Gender: Female
Spouse's Name: John Seabrook
Marriage Date: 28 Aug 1792
Marriage Place: Great Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire, England
That looks possible, Merry.
John's wood engraver son, Thomas, is recorded as being married in the 1861 census. John isn't with Thomas and his wife. I reckon Thomas's wife, Elizabeth, from Tring, the niece in the 1851 censes, are the same person.
Hackney
Thomas Seabrook, head, 34, journeyman engraver on wood, b Middlesex, Aldgate
Elizabeth Seabrook, wife, 38, born Herts, Tring
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_159_161-0468/5217242?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26indiv%3dtry%26h%3d5 217242&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Ah. This is interesting.
Blind John is back living with Thomas and Elizabeth for the 1871 census. Check out the name of where they are living.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_312_316-0315/11544135?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dthomas%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook% 26gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3delizabeth%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%2 6pcat%3d35%26fh%3d2%26h%3d11544135%26recoff%3d%26m l_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Hackney
Leah Cottage
Thomas Seabrook, head, 44, wood engraver, born Middlesex, City of London
Elizabeth Seabrook, wife, 46, born Herts, Tring
Elizabeth Seabrook, dau, 9, scholar, born Middlesex, City of London
John Seabrook, father, 76, annuitant, born Herts, Tring. Blind ?????? by accident
Ann Seabrook, mother, 71, born Middlesex, City of Lonodn
Thomas Seabrook, 4, son, born Middllesex, Hackney
Marriages Dec 1854
Dear George Islington 1b 385
Samways Elizabeth Jane Islington 1b 385
Seabrook Thomas Islington 1b 385 <<<<<<<<<<
Sear Elizabeth Islington 1b 385 <<<<<<<<<<<
Ooh, that is interesting, Shona!
In 1881, John Seabrook is still living with Thomas and Elizabeth. This time recorded as a widower, age 86.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_301_304-0915/14524086?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1881%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dthomas%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook% 26gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3delizabeth%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%2 6pcat%3d35%26fh%3d1%26h%3d14524086%26recoff%3d%26m l_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
I a now envisaging John and Martha having son John in 1794 in Tring. Both of them perfumers.
John jr comes to London and marries Hannah Hazell. They split up and she moves away (Liverpool??!) he remarries to Leah and says he is a bachelor as his first wife is still alive..........
Maybe I should shut up?!!
The 1871 census describes John Seabrook as being blind from what looks like an explosion accident. Found this newspaper report on Find My Past from July 1837 which describes the accident which blinded John, which took place at 6 Worship Street. But he was involved in the manufacture of Lucifer matches. So he was mixing dangerous chemicals - not sweet-scented rose petals and jasmine!
This ties in with the dissolving of the partnership between John Seabrook and Hayden Samuels which was reported in August 1837 - 6 Worship Street.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000082%2f18370718%2f026
kiterunner
02-12-14, 12:28
There is a John Seabrook death registered Jan-Mar 1884 Hackney, age 89, which could be him. Although there are other possibles.
Yes, I saw several old posts of bert's mentioning the matches as well as the perfume business - I'd forgotten about them until now. Not sure which John bert thought he was referring to though???
John Seabrook, mariner, son of John Seabrook, perfumer, married Mary Ann McMullin in Liverpool in 1845. He was full age.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2197/englb5617_283-nic-3-31_m_00005/1703705?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dliverpoolcoemarri ages%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook%26 gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dmcmullin%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt% 3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pc at%3d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d1703705%26recoff%3d9%2b10%2 b29%2b30%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
kiterunner
02-12-14, 12:40
Oops, sorry Shona, I should have posted that one up before.
John Seabrook, mariner, son of John Seabrook, perfumer, married Mary Ann McMullin in Liverpool in 1845. He was full age.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2197/englb5617_283-nic-3-31_m_00005/1703705?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dliverpoolcoemarri ages%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook%26 gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dmcmullin%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt% 3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pc at%3d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d1703705%26recoff%3d9%2b10%2 b29%2b30%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
That's the one we are trying to tie to the rest of the London lot, Shona. He is bert's ancestor.
bert has him as the child of John and Hannah (Hazell) b 1819 at the Lying in hospital in London. Only trouble is that John's father was a carter! John who married in Liverpool had a son who gave himself the middle name Hazel and passed it on to his descendents.
(sorry if repeating stuff already here!)
Shona, I've just been reading about the accident at the match factory. Sounds like John was very lucky to survive it.
Here's the marriage for the parents of Elizabeth Sear who married Thomas Seabrook (son of blind John)
Hertfordshire names online
Thomas Sear
Fanny Seabrook
Tring
21 Apr 1819
and her baptism
Name: Elizabeth Seare
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 3 Nov 1822
Baptism Place: Tring,Hertford,England
Father: Thos. Seare
Mother: Fanny
Elizabeth's mother, Fanny Sear nee Seabrook, was born in Tring about 1797 according to the 1851 census (she and Thomas Sear are in Tring. In 1841 they are also in Tring and dau Elizabeth is with them)
Name: Fanny Seabrooke
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 17 Jul 1796
Baptism Place: Tring,Hertford,England
Father: John Seabrooke
Mother: Martha
FHL Film Number: 91766
This confirms she is sister of blind John and therefore Elizabeth Sear and Thomas Seabrook who married in 1854 were first cousins.
None of which seems to bring us any closer to John Seabrook and Hannah Hazell!
This John Seabrook:
John Seabrooke bap 1 May 1769 Puttenham, Hertford, England parents John,
Jane
left a will in 1821 (bur 1819 Tring) but he doesn't seem to have left anything to any children or a wife, only to siblings, George, Thomas, Martha and Kidgell
He was a dairyman, which I think concludes his elimination!
I've been looking for a burial for Hannah Seabrook.
This one looks a possible:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1559/31280_194907-00320/8983465?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dLMAdeaths%26rank% 3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dann%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dseabrook%26g sln_x%3dNN%26dbOnly%3d_F000576D%257c_F000576D_x%25 2c_F0005A49%257c_F0005A49_x%252c_F0005A5E%257c_F00 05A5E_x%26uidh%3dfpy%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d2%26h%3d89 83465%26recoff%3d8%2b9%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
St Luke's, Finsbury
4 July 1819
Ann Seabrook, Mitchell Street, 37 years.
Oh cripes! I am fairly certain I haven't looked at that today already, but I'm sure I've seen Mitchell Street on something else today :o I know I haven't typed it anywhere, so will have to rack my brains!!
I wouldn't have thought the baptism at the lying in hospital would be as late as 25th August if mum had died in July??
kiterunner
02-12-14, 16:57
If that's her then she was born around 1782, so this could be her baptism:
but can anyone make out the parents' names (second entry on the right-hand page?
LMA records on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1624/31281_A101559-00018/6902056?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dLMAearlyparish %26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26pcat%3 d34%26gss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln_x%3dXO%26 msbdy%3d1782%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdm_x%3d1%26gskw%3d faith%26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F00058A6%257c_F0005 8A6_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005A49%257c_F0005A49_x%26uidh% 3dvm5%26msbdm%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Hannah Hazell christened May 1782 St Faith Under St Paul, London.
This would make her quite a lot older than John, though.
How do we know how old John was??
Can't even see the names, except the surname, sorry!
I'd guess at Richard and Elizabeth, but the image is awful.
kiterunner
02-12-14, 17:59
How do we know how old John was??
Sorry, I meant assuming he is the same one who married Leah.
John Seabrook who married Hannah Hazell and John Seabrook who married Leah Giles both signed their names (as did the women). I've been trying to upload the two images for others to look at, but Photobucket isn't playing. :(
I thought the signature on the second marriage looked more flowing then the first, but who knows whether the pen was a rubbish one the first time round.
Here's a post of bert's from 2008 regarding the info he had on (the other) John Seabrook, possibly relative of John 1794-1884
I have been looking for John Seabrook (Perfumer)and i have come across him in an ad in classified section of "True Briton"dated London Friday 18 March 1796 issue 1007
he is advertising Plate Powder(Silver plate cleaner i think? andFurniture Balls which i think could be casters?)
his address is Mr Seabrook(Perfumer)
Chiswell Street
Nr Finsbury Square
Just wondering if anyone can find anything more....
kiterunner
02-12-14, 22:41
Merry, I thought you had said in post #19 that the John Seabrook who was married to Martha was also a perfumer, but now I realise I misread it and you were just guessing that he might have been. Now I don't think we even know for sure that the Mr Seabrook (perfumer) in that ad was a John, do we? I did look for him earlier on but with no luck.
This cannot be the death of Hannah Seabrook as John was born 14th August 1819
Bert
I AM REALLY CONFUSED NOW.
iN MY FAMILY IN Liverpool ON 2 OCCASIONS THE NAME HAEZEL WAS GIVEN AS A SECOND NAME.
ROBERT HAZEL AND JOHN HAZEL SEABROOKE
WHEN I CAME ACROSS THE MARRIAGE OF A JOHN SEABROOK AND HANNAH HAZELL I TOOK LIBERTY AND CLAIMED THEM AS MINE.
BUT ON JOHN SEABROOK [MARINER]WHO MARRIED IN LIVERPOOL IN 1845 HIS FATHER IS A PERFUMER.
SO THE PLOT THICKENS
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES
b
BERT
This cannot be the death of Hannah Seabrook as John was born 14th August 1819
Bert
Hello Bert. John was baptised on 14 August 1819. The baptismal register is a bit peculiar. Normally, I'd expect to see entries in chronical order, but they are all over the place. The baptisms appear to have been done in batches once a month to once every six weeks.
Merry, I thought you had said in post #19 that the John Seabrook who was married to Martha was also a perfumer, but now I realise I misread it and you were just guessing that he might have been. Now I don't think we even know for sure that the Mr Seabrook (perfumer) in that ad was a John, do we? I did look for him earlier on but with no luck.
Sorry, yes, hoping he might have been a perfumer!
You are quite right that we don't appear to know the first name of the man from Chiswell Street. I'd not really taken that in before.
bert, we are just trying to construct some information about anyone called Seabrook who was a perfumer! At least we now know the age and baptismal details of the John who was blinded by the match chemical explosion. Next is to try and work out if he is the same person who married Hannah Hazell before his marriage to Leah and what happened to Hannah.
Shona, the address for the Seabrook's was Grays Inn Lane and Ann Seabrook was of Mitchell Street. I really need to remember where else I saw Mitchell St Yesterday! Do we know where Mitchell St is?
You are quite right that we don't appear to know the first name of the man from Chiswell Street. I'd not really taken that in before.
I bet this is the same man as the perfumer of Chiswell St. Annoyingly, still no first name!
TNA:
Insured: William Strother, 47 Chiswell Street, gent Other property or occupiers:...
This record is held by London Metropolitan Archives: City of London
Reference: MS 11936/384/594207
Description:
Insured: William Strother, 47 Chiswell Street, gent
Other property or occupiers: Seabrook, hairdresser
Date: 3 January 1792
Mitchell Street is beside St Luke's (where the London Symphony Orchestra rehearse these days) - to the west of Old Street.
Entries in London from the Universal British Directory 1791:
Robert Seabrook - trunk maker, 5 Cheapside
James Seabrook - linen draper, 26 Duke St, Smithfield
Annoyingly, Tring isn't in the directory (nor most other places I need!! lol)
I've looked at the London Land Tax Records, 1692-1932 for Chiswell St around 1795 and the man named Seabrook living there at that time (so possibly the hairdresser/perfumer) was named William.
kiterunner
03-12-14, 11:55
The apprentice records show that Wm Seabrook, citizen and barber of London, paid duties on the 7th Feb 1793, which fits with the name you found, Merry.
kiterunner
03-12-14, 11:57
Ooh, and Wm Seabrook was apprenticed to a Bartholomew Courtenay of St Mary le Strand, Middlesex, perfumer - duties paid 26 Nov 1783.
OK thanks.
So is this about right for the moment.........?
John who married in Liverpool may well be the child of John and Hannah (Hazell) bap 1819, despite John sr saying he was a carter at that time, based on the later use of the name Hazel.
We can't be sure what happened to John sr and Hannah, but it is possible that John sr is the same man who turned to making matches and was born in Tring Herts in abt 1794 (son of John and Martha). If this is the same John as married Hannah Hazell, then why did he say he was a bachelor at the second marriage to Leah Giles and what did happen to his first wife?
I think the refs to the perfumer William are a red-herring except that he might turn out to be a relative of the whole Seabrook family in Herts. I don't see that he has an obvious direct connection to John in Liverpool.
I think (!) I read that bert had some document regarding John jr's first going to sea in 1833. I wonder if that doc contains any helpful info?
kiterunner
03-12-14, 12:23
There is a William Seabrook buried 22 Jul 1846 at St Mary, Islington, age 76, abode Holloway Place, but I can't find him on the 1841 census to see his occupation. UK Census Online does show a William Seabrook, age 65, carpenter, in London, maybe the same one.
kiterunner
03-12-14, 12:26
OK thanks.
So is this about right for the moment.........?
John who married in Liverpool may well be the child of John and Hannah (Hazell) bap 1819, despite John sr saying he was a carter at that time, based on the later use of the name Hazel.
We can't be sure what happened to John sr and Hannah, but it is possible that John sr is the same man who turned to making matches and was born in Tring Herts in abt 1794 (son of John and Martha). If this is the same John as married Hannah Hazell, then why did he say he was a bachelor at the second marriage to Leah Giles and what did happen to his first wife?
I think the refs to the perfumer William are a red-herring except that he might turn out to be a relative of the whole Seabrook family in Herts. I don't see that he has an obvious direct connection to John in Liverpool.
Yes, sounds about right. I'm just following William up in case he turns out to have a son John - we don't know for sure that the John who married Hannah is the same one who married Leah. Also as you say, he could be related to the Tring family so perhaps an uncle or cousin of John sr and took him into the family business.
kiterunner
03-12-14, 12:28
There is a William Seabrooke buried at Bunhill Fields, London (non-conformists' burying ground) 6 Dec 1820, age 51, brought from Pentonville.
There is a William Seabrook buried 22 Jul 1846 at St Mary, Islington, age 76, abode Holloway Place, but I can't find him on the 1841 census to see his occupation. UK Census Online does show a William Seabrook, age 65, carpenter, in London, maybe the same one.
I used my fmp sub to look through Holloway Place, but that didn't help!
That 1820 one is a possible.
I looked for as baptism in Herts around 1769, but there were several!
I've got info. about Seabrook's in the Tring area as they married into one of my Young families.
I'll dig it out and get backto you
I think my link is going to be far to early.
There is a Sara Seabrook date of birth either 23rd June 1684 or 26th September 1685. There were two Sara's born in Ivinghoe, the one bap. in June had a father called John and the one in September was called Richard. Sara married John Young on the 5th October 1713. One of their sons was called Seabrook his profession was,given ad,a schoolmaster and they came from Chesham. The name Seabrook carried on through all the generations of Young's.
lol! Just a slight gap to fill then! We are only back to 1819 max!!
kiterunner
03-12-14, 19:21
On the Index to Death Duty Registers on Findmypast William Seabrooke who died in 1820 has an executor Thomas O Seabrooke, Sun Wharf, Limehouse. It says PC but I didn't see him in the PCC wills so maybe an admon?
I think it should be there, because it's on TNA:
Reference:
PROB 11/1637/263
Description:
Will of William Seabrooke, Cashier of the Bank of England of Pentonville , Middlesex
Date:
18 December 1820
But we probably don't need a cashier!
Ancestry have him indexed like this...
William Seabrooke 18 Dec 1820 England
I looked at this as I have Seabrooks in Cambridge, but did get back to one that came from Blackheath I think, doubt anything to do with this lot but haven't you done well!
kiterunner
03-12-14, 21:51
Ancestry have him indexed like this...
William Seabrooke 18 Dec 1820 England
Well done. I don't know why he didn't come up on my search! Anyway, not the perfumer. But this is the one who was buried at Bunhill Fields. Thanks.
I would like to say thank to the people on this lit for all the work they are doing.
What you said in post 52 is what I believe to be correct
And I think that John the perfumer will be linked with Hertfordshire somewhere.
I have no idea how long a perfumer would have to serve his time for, but if it was5 years and he was 14 at the start that means he was at the very least 19 when he was in Chiswell Street in 1796 and that would make him 29 when he got married in 1816.
The blind John you have in the 1871 census would have been born in 1795
If this is the same John who was in the match works explosion then he cannot be the same John who was in Chiswell Street.
Bert
kiterunner
04-12-14, 06:20
Bert, the John the perfumer who we found was born in Tring, Hertfordshire.
The Chiswell Street perfumer was called William - or have you found something showing a John there as well?
bert, the John who was at Chiswell St seems to be called William! Do you have any documentation showing he was called John?
The blind John is definitely the same person who was in the explosion and had children who called his a perfumer when they married. We are wondering if this John married twice, the first time to Hannah Hazell, but are having trouble proving this as initially it looks unlikely as at the second marriage John said he was a bachelor. This John was born in Tring, Herts about 1794 and was the son of another John (and Martha).
William of Chiswell St was probably born about 1769 if he started his apprenticeship at age 14 in 1783. He might be an uncle or cousin of blind John or no connection at all!
Can you tell us please, all the info you have on the John in Liverpool joining the Navy in 1833?
The apprentice records show that Wm Seabrook, citizen and barber of London, paid duties on the 7th Feb 1793, which fits with the name you found, Merry.
Freedom of the City of London papers on Ancestry name William Seabrook's father as James. James was also a barber. Apprentice records for James name his father as Jasper.
James Seabrook's will names his son William.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5111/40611_311480-00184/606915?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry. co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253dcanturburyprerogativeco urt%2526so%253d2%2526pcat%253d36%2526rank%253d1%25 26new%253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%2 53dangs-c%2526gsfn%253dJames%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%25 3dSeabrook%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526ca tBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Moving back to John Seabrook, son of John Seabrook and Hannah Hazell, here are his Merchant Navy Records from Find My Past. Nothing about family, though.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=tna%252fmsea%252fbtoth%252f4650146%252f0 0343&parentid=tna%252fbt112%252f2133447084%252f1&highlights=%2522%2522
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=tna%252fmsea%252fbtoth%252f4650146%252f0 0092&parentid=tna%252fbt112%252f2133445252%252f1&highlights=%2522%2522
Those fmp links aren't working for me, Shona, but if they are for the stuff from the 1840s then I've already looked at them! I've been trying to think where bert might have found 1833 records for the RN, but I don't know. :o
Freedom of the City of London papers on Ancestry name William Seabrook's father as James. James was also a barber. Apprentice records for James name his father as Jasper.
Find My Past have the following:
Removal order
St Giles Cripplegate
1 Feb 1713 Jasper SEABROOK (a young child) from St Olave Hart St. on oath of Elizabeth SHEPPARD wid that Jasper is son or reputed son of John SEABROOK now prisoner in Newgate & John was a housekeeper in this parish for 15 y. & paid rates.
There is also a record of Jasper Seabrook marrying Anne Laurence on 24 August 1733 at Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney.
Still can't find a link between the family of William Seabrook, the barber/hairdresser/perfumer of Chiswell Street and the John Seabrook from Tring (the one who was blinded in the explosion).
Those fmp links aren't working for me, Shona, but if they are for the stuff from the 1840s then I've already looked at them! I've been trying to think where bert might have found 1833 records for the RN, but I don't know. :o
They are from the 1840s, Merry. I'm not sure where Bert has found 1833 RN records. They aren't available online.
This Is what I have on John Seabrook Mariner
Born 14th AUG 1819 in London Middlesex
Father John Seabrook Perfumer
1833 First went to sea as an apprentice
1834-1836 nothing known
1837 19th Nov On a Ship called Moffat, Sailed from Sheerness to Van Demons Land
arriving on 1st April 1838
1839 19 Oct He joined a Ship called Arab in London bound for Launceston and Port Philip
he was 20 and an ord seaman
1840 On the way he left {or taken off by the Royal Navy and was on HMS Brisk this was the 13thJan
Back to John Seabrook Mariner
He stayed on HMS Brisk until 1842 doing anti slavery duties.
1842 He joined a Ship called Nolina in Cape Town to India where he joined a ship Edinburgh 3rd June back to London where he discharged19 Sep1843
1843 he was on Roseanne{a}discharged in Liverpool2 March 1844 where he joined Larch on 28th May sailed 31st May for Africa and discharged in Liverpool10th Jan 1845
1845 he obtained his Ticket No106871 in Liverpool he was 26 this was 21Jan 1845 He married Mary Ann McMullin 1st March 1845 at St Nicholas Parish Church Liverpool after banns.in the 1851 census Mary Ann is a Widow with son Robert,dont know where he died or when,yhays my lot.
Bert
Born 14th AUG 1819 in London Middlesex
1833 First went to sea as an apprentice
We need to know the source(s) for these two pieces of information.
We have seen his baptism record which says he was baptised 25 August, but that doesn't have his birth date. So you must have had the birth date from somewhere else. Did the place that recorded the birth date also give London as his place of birth or is that taken from the Lying in Hospital record?
Do you have a document about his apprenticeship? Tell us about it!
Yes, please tell us, Bert. I'd love to know as I didn't think there were any records of individual ratings from that period. There are muster records, so it may be possible to trace a rating back that way, but it would have to be done at the National Archives as those records aren't online.
on BT113/54 records it states John Seabrook No106,870 born London Middlesex 14 Aug 1819.First went to sea as an apprentice in1833 he served 1 year in the Royal navy.
His ticket was issued in Liverpool 21Jan 1845
Bert
All other information I have on his life I have got by going to LDS and reading 100s of films over a very long time and a lot of money.
Bert
Ah-ha! BT113/54 is on fmp but transcribed as John Trabook!
I knew I'd find it eventually! lol
lol!
I was going to post up the image for anyone who doesn't have fmp, but I don't have photoshop on this laptop to play with the image. I'll type it out for the time being.....
Name and Description:
No. of 106,871 Register Ticket.
John Seabrook
Born at London in the
County of Mdx 14 day of Aug 1819
Capacity
Seaman
Height 5ft 3 Hair Brown
Complexion Light Eyes Blue
Marks Small Pox
First went to sea as app in the Year 1833
Has served in the Royal Navy 1 ½ yr.
Has been in Foreign Service -
When unemployed, resides at London
Issued at Liverpool 21 day of Jan 1845
The above is the first column, but I'm posting now as this laptop sometimes freezes and I loose my typing! The italic parts are hand written and the rest typed.
Age in 1845 ... 26
Age when Ticketed 26
Can Write Yes
The column for reported voyages 1845 is blank.
There is a 'S' written at the top of each completed column.
1846 Reported Voyages
Out
2853.62.7.
62.12.5
Home
2153.62.7.
62.12.1?
1847 Reported Voyages
Out
2857.68.4
62.12.5
?857.68.4
62.14.6
?342.62.4
62 (or 12?).28.9
Home
857.62.4
12.28.5
857.62.4
62.5.9
1848 Reported Voyages
Out
(blank)
Home
1362.62.4
62.51
The rest of the columns, up to 1854, are blank and so is the Remarks column.
I know very little about these records, and may well have copied some of those numbers incorrectly :o as the writing is only average!!
Lucky you can read them at all. I've used the microfilm at TNA, and they were appalling. You can use the numbers to work out which ports the ships were going to and from, but it's a hellish task.
The system was so complicated that it got abandoned - hence the blank columns.
Well, he also might have been dead. Depending on which census you believe anyway - his wife said she was a widow in 1851 and married in 1861!
Gday Merry
Thanks for his voyage Nos at least I know he was still alive in 1848.
At the moment I am going through all the ships in Australian waters, i have done from 1846 -1865 I have found 2 Seabrook both spelt wrong, dont know if he is my man or not yet.
Bert
kiterunner
06-12-14, 22:46
Well, he also might have been dead. Depending on which census you believe anyway - his wife said she was a widow in 1851 and married in 1861!
Mary Ann has a daughter Mary age 8 with her in 1861. It would be interesting to know what it says for father's details on her birth reg / baptism.
I couldn't find birth registrations for either of her children and only a baptism for Robert.
I don't think I looked at Family Search though......
I don't know where the information saying Mary Ann re married
There are a few things that don't make sense
In the 1851 census I says living with Mary Ann and son Robert is Eliza McMullin sister, widow aged 40.
If she was a widow wouldn't she be sister in law, or did she marry somebody with the same family name.
Bert
kiterunner
07-12-14, 21:55
Sister could well mean sister in law on the census, Bert.
I don't know where the information saying Mary Ann re married
I don't think anyone is saying Mary Ann remarried. It's jut that she did appear to say she was a widow in 1851, then had another child and in 1861 said she was married rather than a widow. One or both of the censuses may give incorrect info and we have no way to know who Mary Ann jr's biological father was.
kiterunner
07-12-14, 22:46
Hmm, is this her?
Liverpool Catholic Baptisms on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2180/engl-56170_282-alb-1-6_m_00444/744788?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dLiverpoolEngCa thBapt%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26 msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dsea*b r*k*%26gsln_x%3dXO%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Third entry on page, in Latin. Late night attempt at translation, corrections welcomed:
Williams (alias Seabrook alias Lavery) 40 Blackie's Bldgs, Regent Rd
Said to be age 34
Born 1 June 1856, and baptised 7 March 1890
Mary Williams, nee Seabrook, alias Lavery, daughter of John and Mary Ann Seabrook, alias Lavery, formerly Seabrook, alias Lavery, married.
Well I can't help with the translation (though it looks pretty good), but it is her because I had traced her up as far as her marriage to Richard Williams and seen that she gave John's name as father.
The 1861 census had her age as 8, so I am mildly dubious about her dob being June 1856.
I don't know where the name Lavery fits in, as Mary is with Richard Williams and their children in 1881 and 1891. At Blackie's Buildings in 1891.
daughter of John and Mary Ann Seabrook, alias Lavery
Perhaps John was known as Lavery at some point? I want Hannah Hazell/Seabrook to have run away with Mr Lavery now!
this is getting confusing, I have never heard of the name Lavery.
Mary Seabrook married Richard Williams 1873
Bert
kiterunner
08-12-14, 22:47
The baptism entry is a bit messed up, I guess because it is an adult baptism. So where it should have the maiden name of Mary's mother, Mary Ann, it has Mary's maiden name instead. So we don't know who exactly is supposed to have been alias Lavery - John, Mary Ann, Mary, or all of them! I had a look earlier but couldn't find any of them anywhere under the name Lavery.
I never looked for Mary Williams nee Seabrook in the 1891 census maybe she remarried j don't know but if so her 2 children 15 and 11 would have been with her I would think.
As for her getting baptised in 1890 might be because she changed religion, dont know.
Bert
Mary is with Richard Williams and their children in 1881 and 1891. At Blackie's Buildings in 1891.
Yes bert, the two children you mentioned (Richard and Robert) are with Mary in 1881 and 1891. In 1891 there's also Isaac 7, Esther 6, Martha 2 and William 2 mths.
In 1901 they are back at Denison St with Martha 12, William 9 and Michael 7.
In 1911 Mary is a widow at 32 Denison St. She says she is aged 53 (her age had gradually crept down over the years!). She has filled in the details of the number of children she'd had, thought she shouldn't have done as she was widowed - she says married 37 years and 13 live births, 5 children surviving, 7 dec'd. She has listed William 19, Michael 17 and Martha 21 as living with her, but Martha's entry is crossed through. There's also a boarder and a servant who is probably just the boarder's wife.
Some baptisms of children of Richard and Mary Williams:
St Paul's, Liverpool
Born 17 May 1876, Bap 18 Jun 1876, Richard Thomas, address 16 Hillfield St, father's occ Ship's steward
Born 23 Nov 1878, Bap 6 Feb 1879, William Isaac, address Key Street, occ Mariner (death reg Q1 1879)
St Peter's, Liverpool
Born 28 Jan 1880, Bap 15 Feb 1880, Robert, Key St, Mariner
Born 10 Sep 1882, Bap 25 Sep 1882, John Isaac, Gibraltar Row, Mariner (Death reg Q4 1907)
Born 23 Nov 1887, Bap 13 Dec 1887, John, Regent Road, Mariner (there are several possible deaths for this baby before 1881)
Born 3 Oct 1889, Bap 15 Oct 1889, Martha, Regent Road, Mariner
I'm wondering if after Mary's baptism any further children were baptised at a church not available online? Clearly I don't have all the ones born before that either!
I didn't really find any where I wasn't sure they were the right family, so it's likely they had some children who died before baptism too.
In the 1851 census, we found Mary Ann Seabrook, a 50-year-old Irish-born widowed charwoman, living with her son, Robert, her 'sister', Eliza McMullen, and Eliza's son, James.
This looks like Eliza in 1841:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LANHO107_557_557-0213/5775447?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1841%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dEliza%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dMcMullen%2 6gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dliverpool%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpx t%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d3% 26h%3d5775447%26recoff%3d6%2b7%26ml_rpos%3d4&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
James McMullen, 30, labourer, b Ireland
Eliza McMullen, 25, b Ireland
James McMullen, 10
Hugh McMullen, 5
Eliza McMullen, 3
The children were born in county.
It therefore appears that the McMullen family had pre-famine roots in Liverpool.
James McMullen married Eliza Finimor on 7 July 1827 by banns at Liverpool St Peter. Both of the parish and both made their mark.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2197/engl56170_283-pet-3-16_m_00047/2648177?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dLiverpoolCoEMarri ages%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dmcmullen%2 6gsln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3deliza%26gskw_x%3d1%26uidh%3d fpy%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d2648177%26recoff%3d 9%2b10%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
There are baptisms in the Catholic records for Jacobi McMullen and Eliza Fenemor (and variant spellings):
- Bernardus, born 20 February 1829, bpt 22 February.
- Joannes, born February 12 1832 and bpt same day
.- Hugo, born 18 April 1834, bpt 20 April.
- Eliza, born 13 April 1838, bpt 15 April.
Bernard died as a baby and was buried on 6 May. The register records his father as a labourer and Papist.
kiterunner
09-12-14, 18:19
So it is likely that Mary Ann was Catholic too, isn't it, Shona? In which case Mary jr's adult baptism could mean that she was not baptised at all as a child? Perhaps because she was illegitimate?
a 50-year-old Irish-born widowed charwoman
Aged 30, not 50 :)
Aged 30, not 50 :)
*curses arthritic fingers*
Gday Shona.
I think you may have 2 McMullin families in your posting of 104
None of the children are in the 1841 census
St Peter was a Parish Church of England
St Pauls I don't know where it was.
Bert
Gday Merry
Post 103
This family have been busy, all those kids.
And I notice none have Latin names.
I think Mary had an adult baptism because she did not belong to John, I think it was practice in those days for widows to sleep around for money as there was no pension for seaman widows, and living in the courts in Denison Street and Gibraltar Row must have been horrid, I wonder if John didn't die or just sail off into the sunset.
Bert
think you may have 2 McMullin families in your posting of 104
None of the children are in the 1841 census
Three of the children are on the 1841 census in post 104.
oops I meant 51 census only James is listed
Bert
We now seem a very long way from John Seabrook Perfumer and Hannah Hazell.
Bert
It's always important to follow up as many family branches as possible as if you don't you won't know what you have missed. What if another previously unknown family member had turned up with the Williams branch and given us a lead?
Also look for other people researching lines that attach to your tree as they may have some vital piece of information you don't. Have you found anyone researching the Williams family?
Uncle John
12-12-14, 16:23
I've had nieces turning up as house servants in uncle's household.
Where would that be?
Bert
I think Uncle John means he has discovered this in his family tree, not with your Seabrook tree. Examining associated branches and twigs can reveal a clue which helps us answer our original query.
Thank you
Would anybody know if there are any records of apprentice Perfumers on line?
Bert
There are apprentice records on Ancestry - we found some Seabrook ones up-thread.
kiterunner
15-12-14, 22:16
The apprentice records on ancestry only go up to 1811 and I couldn't see your John Seabrook in there. They also have records of people who were made Freemen of the City of London with information about their apprenticeships but I couldn't see him in there either.
Thank you Kate,
I am clutching at straws as you can see.
The four main players in my tree are John Seabrook{perfumer} Hannah Hazell wife,
death of John Seabrook {Mariner} and Irish connections for Mary Ann McMullin.
These have been my brick walls for nearly 20years.
Maybe I,ve gone as far as I am ever going to get.
I would just like to thank everybody on this Forum for all their input and efforts.
Bert
This isn't the moment to give up, bert!
Almost every day new records come online and so there's always a chance that something new will bring the means to knock down your wall. I think the last year has been the most productive for me in solving family tree riddles since I started my tree about 30 years ago. Some of these problems I'd been wrestling with right from the start!
No chance of me giving up Merry, I am with you all the way, its just I don't know which way to turn.
Bert
Is there any way to find John Seabrook my Mariners Death at sea, or maybe he just run away to finer pastures.
Bert
Is there any way to find John Seabrook my Mariners Death at sea, or maybe he just run away to finer pastures.
Bert
I've looked at these databases on fmp:
Deaths At Sea, 1781-1968
British Nationals Died Overseas 1818-2005
plus a few less likely ones:
Isle Of Man Deaths & Burials 1844-1911
British Nationals Armed Forces Deaths 1796-2005
British India Office Deaths & Burials
But nothing turned up for Seabrook or normal variables for that name.
Thanks Merry.
I do appreciate every thing you and the list have done on my behalf.
Bert
Gday Merry
About the ship numbers you sent, No1362 that is the ships name which was Victoria ,28ton sailing ship, I think because of its tonnage this trip may have been a coastal trip.
This was something that you found for me that I knew nothing about.
The other ships Nos are not on the list.
Thanks again
Bert
Gday List
Back off holiday ready to resume looking for help.
Bert
Gday List
Robert Hazel Seabrooke married Ada Louise Osbourne 1903 in Liverpool
Her father was Charles Osbourne he was a mariner from London I think.
her mother was Amy?
Any information on the Osbourne family will be most welcome.
Bert
Happy Easter to all on list
Mary from Italy
03-04-15, 00:13
Her mother was Emma Louisa (aka Amy) Leighton.
This is the marriage (from FreeBMD)
Marriages Mar 1874
Irving Margaret Liverpool 8b 276
>> Leighton Emma Louisa Liverpool 8b 276
>> OSBORNE Charles Liverpool 8b 276
Rawlinson James Liverpool 8b 276
They're quite easy to find on the censuses; if you have a subscription to Ancestry I'll post the links. If you don't, you should be able to view it free at your local library.
1881 census:
Living at 30 Evelyn St., Kirkdale, Lancs
Amy Osborne, head, married, 29, seaman's wife, born Liverpool
Ada L Osborne, daughter, 4, born Liverpool
Ellena J Osborne, daughter, 6 months, born Liverpool
1891 census
Living at 34 Chancel St., Kirkdale, Lancs
Charles Osborne, head, married, 43, ship rigger, born Mountnessing, Essex
Emma L Osborne, wife, married, 38, born Liverpool
Ada L Osborne, daughter, 14, born Liverpool
Eleanor J Osborne, daughter, 10, born Liverpool
Sarah Osborne, daughter, 8, born Liverpool
Mary from Italy
03-04-15, 00:19
1901 census
Living at 34 Chancel St., Kirkdale, Lancs
Charles Osborne, head, married, 54, seaman, born Mountnessing, Essex
Emma L Osborne, wife, married, 48, born Liverpool
Ada L Osborne, daughter, 24, card-box maker, born Liverpool
Sarah Osborne, daughter, 18, born Liverpool
Agnes M Graham, s-in-law, widow, 37, born Liverpool
1911 census
Living at 423 Hawthorne Rd., Bootle
Robert Seabrooke, head, married, 37, dock porter, born Liverpool
Ada Seabrooke, wife, married, 34, born Liverpool; married 8 years, 3 children born, 2 living, 1 deceased
Eleanor Seabrooke, daughter, single, 7, born Liverpool
John Seabrooke, son, single, 1, born Liverpool
Mary from Italy
Thank you very much for the Osborne information it is very good of you.
Thanks Bert
Gday List
We have just got home from a 6week tour of England
Would have loved to have been able to do some research but with others and it is not their scene.
Bert
Gay List
just to let you know that I am still very interested in your site and would love to hear if you have any more information for me regarding my Seabrook{e} family.I have been out of sorts for a while
Bert
Hello Bert, Sorry to hear you.ve not been well.
I'm sure members of this site would be more than willing to help you with your research, but you would need to tell us exactly what you want to know first. Imagine spending hours searching for stuff and typing it all here, only for you to say "I knew that already"!!
Gday list
Can you shed any light on my John Seabrook who married Hannah Hazel in 1816 at St John ,Hackney London Middlesex, did they have any more children other than John.?
Where were they born, where did he learn to be a Perfumer ?
Bert
I've just read back this whole thread to see what we have already for John and Hannah as clearly bert's memory on the subject is going to be better than mine!
I realise you will know this (below) already bert, but I'm posting it here so that hopefully others don't have to read the whole thread too!!
John Seabrook and Hannah Hazel married on 17 July 1816 at St John Hackney.
John may have been born about 1794 in Tring Herts (parents John and Martha)
We don't have any confirmed origins for Hannah.
So far there is only one known child for this couple:
John Seabrook, bap 25 Aug 1819 (possibly born 12 Aug 1819) at the City of London Lying-In Hospital in Finsbury. Father's occ is carter/porter and their address is Grays Inn Lane. This John b 1819 is bert's ancestor who was a seaman who later moved to the Liverpool area.
We don't know what happened to Hannah, but John sr may have remarried (but stating he was a bachelor) to Leah Giles 23 Jun 1822 at St Botolph Without Bishopsgate. From just one read back I'm not quite sure how certain we were/became on whether both marriages are for the same man?
So, initially we are looking for children of John and Hannah b 1816-1822 other than John 1819, probably in London or Herts.
I must say initially I'm feeling nothing more is going to be found because we probably would have found something the last (few times?!) we looked, but I mustn't have a negative attitude, so will see if I can see anything now.
where did he learn to be a Perfumer ?
Bother, I'm going to have to read the whole thread again because I forgot I was supposed to be looking out for this too. Don't think I can face that now. bert, if you have already made some notes about what we did or didn't find about John from Tring and how he became a perfumer maybe you could tell us as that would surely be quicker than me having to re-digest this whole thread again!
And no other children traced so far on Ancestry. I'm going to look at fmp now. I realise Seabrook is pretty ripe for mis-transcription.
Well, I concentrated on London on ancestry and Herts on fmp but found nothing 1820 +/- 5 years.
Have you looked on Family Search bert?
From post #9 we had John with his second wife Leah (if this is the same man who was prev married to Hannah Hazel)
1841 census:
29 Holywell Lane Shoreditch
John Seabrook 45
Leah 45
Martha 25 waistcoat maker
Thomas 14 apprentice wood engraver
Samuel 11
I've been trying to see (without reading the whole blinky thing again) if we found out anything more about Martha Seabrook, waistcoat maker.
But is she this one (from post #6) with the wrong age on the 1841 census?
Martha born Mar 2d, bap Ap 13 1823, parents John & Leah Seabrook, Shoreditch, weaver
Refinding the census page took an age (of course they are spelled correctly on fmp but I looked at ancestry!)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=xPI1437&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=uki1841&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gskw=shoreditch&gskw_x=1&_F0003039=706&_F0003039_x=1&_F000303A=40&_F000303A_x=1&_F00032DB=21&_F00032DB_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=672&pcat=35&fh=43&h=7810666&recoff=&ml_rpos=44
Clearly reads as age 25 on there, but of course the information could be wrong or could be someone other than their daughter, or some other mystery!
Merry,
Thanks for you replies
I have looked into family search but I cant find anything, that dose not mean I have not missed it.
I think John must have been born in the 1770s because in march 1796 he is a perfumer in Chiswell Street Nr Finsbury Square so even if he was 20 at that time he would have been 65 in the 1841 census, therefore I cant see any connection to Leha.
Bert
No - the perfumer in Chiswell Street was called William.
He is mentioned in the following post numbers:
46
49
67
68
69
75
In post 49 we discovered his name was William. In post 67 you said again his name was John and in post 68 we said his name was William but did you have any evidence to suggest something different? You didn't answer that question.
Gday Merry
How do I get to red all my posts? i seem to be able to only read 1-15
I thought the William was the owner of the shop in Chiswell Street and that John and his partner were only tenants.
Bert
kiterunner
14-06-16, 06:25
How do I get to red all my posts? i seem to be able to only read 1-15
You can probably see pages 1-15 but Merry was quoting the numbers of the individual posts within those pages.
When you get to the bottom of the first page of posts, click the next page number on the right under the last post.
You said in your last post:
I thought the William was the owner of the shop in Chiswell Street and that John and his partner were only tenants.
John Seabrook and his partner Samuel Hayden were at Worship Street in 1837. This John Seabrook (ie the one with the partner Samuel Hayden) is definitely the same man injured in the match factory explosion in 1837 and born 1796 in Tring, Hertfordshire.
William Seabrook was at Chiswell Street in the 1790s.
You said in post #145
I think John must have been born in the 1770s because in march 1796 he is a perfumer in Chiswell Street Nr Finsbury Square
Below is a post from another forum which you wrote in 2008 and would appear the be the source for your comment regarding 'march 1796':
I have been looking for John Seabrook (Perfumer) and i have come across him in an ad in classified section of "True Briton"dated London Friday 18 March 1796 issue 1007
he is advertising Plate Powder(Silver plate cleaner i think? and Furniture Balls which i think could be casters?)
his address is Mr Seabrook(Perfumer)
Chiswell Street
Nr Finsbury Square
But this record from 'True Briton' doesn't tell you his first name! All the other records we have found for Mr Seabrook of Chiswell Street (see that list of post numbers I mentioned in post #146) for the 1790s give his first name as William.
kiterunner
14-06-16, 06:31
I thought the William was the owner of the shop in Chiswell Street and that John and his partner were only tenants.
John and his partner were based at 6 Worship Street when the accident occurred and when their partnership was dissolved (in 1837).
And, yes, 47 Chiswell Street was owned by a William (William Strother), but the London Tax Records of 1795 show a William Seabrook living there, and the apprentice records show that Wm Seabrook was apprenticed to a Bartholomew Courtenay of St Mary le Strand, Middlesex, perfumer - duties paid 26 Nov 1783 (see posts #49-51, on pages 5 and 6.) We didn't find anything to say that a John Seabrook was at Chiswell Street.
kiterunner
14-06-16, 08:24
I can't remember whether we found this already, but John Seabrook is listed at 6 Worship Street, Shoreditch, in the 1836 London Electoral Register. Doesn't really help much.
Thanks KateRunner
Is that the same worship street nr Finsbury square ?
Bert
kiterunner
16-06-16, 08:26
Yes.
kiterunner
I Have John Seabrook mentioned in the Commercial Intelligence ,The Leeds Mercury.Sat.26th Aug 1837 issue 5408
Partnership Dissolved
Samuel Hayden and John Seabrook
6 Worship Street
Finsbury{Perfumers} Hackney
Any idea what happened to him after that?
Bert
Any idea what happened to him after that?
Bert, you need to read the thread back as there are dozens of posts discussing what happened to John from Worship Street. He's the one who was married to Leah and had three children with her (Martha, Thomas and Samuel), had been blinded in the match factory accident, and lived until 1884. That's what I can remember without reading back.
Thanks Merry,
Some reason or other I cant get all the back posts.
I will start looking at Leah and see what that brings me.
Did his first wife Hannah(Hazel) die in child birth when John was born in 1819?
Thanks again
Bert
Gday Merry
I have found a few hard copies of some of our transcripts.
The marriage of John Seabrook and Leah Giles in 1822 ,John is a bachelor and in the 1841 census he is only 45 which means he was born 1796.He was in a place of employment 47 Chiswell Street Nr Finsbury Square Perfumers in 1796 and married Hannah Hazel in 1816.
I really was hoping that his second marriage to Leah was a big step forward.
Bert
Gday Merry
I have found a few hard copies of some of our transcripts.
The marriage of John Seabrook and Leah Giles in 1822 ,John is a bachelor and in the 1841 census he is only 45 which means he was born 1796.He was in a place of employment 47 Chiswell Street Nr Finsbury Square Perfumers in 1796 and married Hannah Hazel in 1816.
I really was hoping that his second marriage to Leah was a big step forward.
Bert
Come on bert! The Chiswell St man is called WILLIAM not John, so your John does not have to be middle aged when he married Hannah!!
Yes, we know Leah's husband John was born in 1796. It's not unheard of for people to give an incorrect marital status at a marriage for a variety of reasons from apparently misunderstanding the question to committing bigamy.
More to the point, I don't understand why you cannot read back the whole thread? Would you agree this post is number 159? Whilst reading this post if you look immediately under the message on the right there is a small box which tells you the page numbers the thread has been divided into and if you click the word '<< First' you will be taken to the first page of the thread. By choosing different page numbers you can read the whole thread.
Gday Merry
Thanks once again, maybe I never thought of bigamy.
This still leaves me with ,what ever happened to Hazel?
I have been able to find my threads after your explanation.
Thanks again
Bert
Gday Merry
Thanks once again, maybe I never thought of bigamy.
This still leaves me with ,what ever happened to Hazel?
I have been able to find my threads after your explanation.
Thanks again
Bert
Bigamy was certainly more common when divorce was impossible for ordinary people.
You are right, at the moment we don't know what happened to Hannah Hazel.
I'm glad you are now able to read the whole thread.
Gday Merry
I have been going through some of my posts
We have one for the 1871 Census which reads
Hackney
Leah Cottage
Thomas head 44 wood engraver born Middlesex City of London
Elizabeth wife 46 born Tring Hertfordshire
Elizabeth Dau 9 scholar born Middlesex City of London
John father 76 annuitant born Tring Hertfordshire Blind??? by accident
Ann Seabrook mother 71 born Middlesex City of London
Thomas 4 son born Hackney Middlesex
Who is Ann ,John is a widower at this time, This wouldn't be Hannah Hazel back on the scene would it?
Bert
kiterunner
28-06-16, 07:23
This could be John's marriage to Ann:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_197138-00181/2852896?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAmarriages%26gss%3dsfs28_ms _r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3 djohn%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dseabro*%26gsln_x%3d1%2 6mssng%3dleah%26mssng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm 5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
2 May 1852 St Paul, Canonbury, Islington: John Seabrook, full age, widower, annuitant, residence 3 Norfolk Place, father John Seabrook, bailiff, married Ann Sabberton, full age, widow, residence 4 Albion Road, father John Denny, stationer, witnesses John Holt and Elizabeth Sear.
Boyd's Marriage Index has Charles Sabberton marrying Ann Denny in 1832 at St Lawrence Pountney, London.
Ancestry's Select Marriages, 1538–1973 has the date as 15 Nov 1832 and the place as Saint Mary Abchurch, London
Pallot's Marriage Index says 1832 St Lawrence Pountney, London and adds bachelor and spinster and married by licence. Ann is of St Giles Cripplegate, London.
kiterunner
28-06-16, 11:43
John Seabrook "made his mark" on the marriage to Ann Sabberton, which would fit with him being blind.
Elizabeth Sear, who was a witness at the 1852 wedding, was blind John's sister (established before post #28 on this thread).
Has John been Married 5 times? and in the census Ann says she is the mother to whome?
Bert
Where do you get 5 marriages from? The man on the census married Leah and Ann and probably married Hannah as well, but I can't make that five!
Census relationships are to the head of household. Ann was not a biological mother to anyone in the household, but as the wife of John she was step-mother to the head of house, Thomas Seabrook.
Gday Merry
Maths never was my best subject ,I did mean 3 times but must have hit the wrong key.
Elizabeth sear was Johns niece and not his sister, she was the daughter of Fanny Sear {nee Seabrook Johns sister}.
Another posser.
Is there an 1831 census that will tell if John the mariner was with John and Leah or did he go with his mother {if they divorced}Hannah Seabrook{nee Hazel}
Bert
Sorry, yes your right - Elizabeth Sear was a witness at the 1852 wedding of John and Ann before she married Thomas in 1854. As you said, her mother was John's sister.
There was a census taken in 1831 but any information surviving from it would not help us in this instance as names were not recorded. You can read about it here:
http://www.1911census.org.uk/1831.htm
If John and Hannah did separate they wouldn't have been divorced as before 1858 an individual would have to get a private act of parliament passed - something that was only available to the very wealthy/influential etc. There were about 300 divorces in 200 years up to 1858. The 'impossibility' of divorce is one reason the rates of bigamy were higher then that now.
Thanks once again Merry.
I have run out of questions at the moment,I will have to put my thinking cap on.
Bert
I wonder if I can impose on you once again.
Can you shed any light on Mary Ann McMullin who married John Seabrook in Liverpool 1845.
She was born in Ireland abt 1821,not 1oo% sure but I think in Down, her father was Robert McMullin listed as a Farmer mother unknown.
Why I think Down in a later census her nephew is listed as Down.
This is another brick wall for many a year now.
Bert
Why I think Down in a later census her nephew is listed as Down.
Could you please tell us the name of the nephew and which census that was bert.
I found James McMullin, nephew, with Mary Seabrook in 1851 , but it just says Ireland for his birthplace. I'm guessing you are referring to the same nephew on a different census. I could spend time searching, but it would be so much easier if you could just tell us!!
I did find a James McMullen from Down on the 1891 census married to a Dorothy, but firstly, I don't know if this is the same James - he is five years older - and secondly, for all I know James McMullen isn't the person you are referring to!
Mothers weren't unknown, simply not named.
kiterunner
19-08-16, 10:05
I think Bert was just saying that he doesn't know who Mary Ann's mother was, Shona.
There are eight men with the name Robert McMullen listed in Co Down in the Griffiths Valuation.
Do you know what religion Mary Ann was? There are several baptisms for Mary McMullen and variants at about the right time on the Irish Catholic baptisms collection on Ancestry. None to a Robert from what I can see.
Merry and others,
OOOPs I have made a mistake in telling you that James McMullin was from Down in the census .I must also mean The James that is now married in Liverpool.
So I have no idea what part of Ireland the McMullins came from.
As for her religion all I know is John Seabrook and Mary Ann McMullin where married in St Nicholas Parish church 1845 Liverpool and that it is C of E
Bert
The family I thought may be the one I am looking maybe this one.
1841 Census Liverpool North Side of Oriel Street
James McMullin 30 Lab born Ireland
Eliza McMullin 25 " "
James McMullin 10 it says born Lancashire but I think Ireland
Hugh McMullin 5 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""?
Eliza McMullin 3 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""?
There was a family f the same as this in Magneralane Co Antrum Ireland
Bert
See posts #104-#110 in this thread.
Is it back to the drawing board on this one?
Bert
Gday List.
I have come across a John Seabrook who I think is the one who married Martha Barber in
1792 Great Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire.
He was born in 1769 to John Seabrook and Jane in Puttingham Hertfordshire.
The only Puttingham I can find is in Surrey ,where there two places with that name at one time?
And if not why would it be in the Hertford Parish registers?
Bert
You haven't told us where you found the baptism information. I looked for it on findmypast which has the parish name spelled correctly as Puttenham, Hertfordshire. (so 'en' not 'ing' as the middle syllable).
The place in Surrey is also spelled Puttenham!! :D
I have a little program which tells me:
It is 41.7 Miles (67.2 Kms); South (176 Degrees).
FROM:- Puttenham, P, HRT,ENG.
TO:- Puttenham, P, SRY, ENG.
This is post #29 of this thread:
This John Seabrook:
John Seabrooke bap 1 May 1769 Puttenham, Hertford, England parents John,
Jane
left a will in 1821 (bur 1819 Tring) but he doesn't seem to have left anything to any children or a wife, only to siblings, George, Thomas, Martha and Kidgell
He was a dairyman, which I think concludes his elimination!
He was a dairyman, which I think concludes his elimination!
I can't remember why I said that now? Wasn't it his son who was the blind perfumer/match manufacturer? I don't think we have any other record of this John's occupation, do we?
Mind you, it's odd his will leaves nothing to any children if he is the father of (blind) John and others. If he's Martha's husband it's not surprising he didn't leave her anything as looks like she was buried in Tring in 1814.
It's a pity I didn't say where I'd read the will :o
Thanks List I did mean Puttenham, which means I wrote without thinking straight.
So dose this there was a Puttenham in Hertfordshire ?
Bert
Yes, and it's still there!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Puttenham,+Tring/@51.8231142,-0.7296236,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x487659b2e2f5e729:0xf2ef5 4c34d320e67!8m2!3d51.823116!4d-0.712114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puttenham,_Hertfordshire
I don't know if you were thinking the John Seabrook who was baptised in Puttenham in 1769 was man who married Martha Barber and was therefore the father of blind John Seabrook?
I don't think he was, as that John Seabrook left a will in which he mentioned no children.
There is another John Seabrook who was baptised in Tring on 26 Feb 1769. His parents were John Seabrook and Elizabeth (nee Harding - they married in Tring in 1767). I wondered if he might be the one you are looking for?
As for his occupation which I queried in an earlier post - the marriage cert between John Seabrook and Ann Sabberton in 1852 gives his occupation as bailiff.
Gday List
All these Johns, they must have had no imagination.
The John born in Puttenham Hertfordshire,i thought maybe the father of John who married Martha Barber, this John was the Baliff
The John you mentioned as being Baptised in Tring in 1769 I havn,t come across.
Bert
If you mean the John who was baptised in Puttenham in 1769, I don't see how he can be the father of the man who married Martha Barber in 1792 as he would only have been approx. 23 years of age at the marriage.
I thought you were saying the 1769 man later married Martha Barber himself. I thought that seemed unlikely as the Puttenham man doesn't seem to have had children, so maybe the man from Tring bap 1769 is the one who married Martha Barber?
I have not found any record of either of them being called a bailiff in their lifetimes. The Puttenham John died in 1818 and his will says he was a dairyman (he left his estate to his siblings). The John bap in Tring in 1769 may have died in 1811 (no age at death on his burial) and was then recorded as a grazier:
Abstract of Administration of John Seabrook, Grazier of Betlow in the parish of Tring, Hertfordshire. Proved in the Court of Huntingdon.
Date: September 13 1811
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Ref: IR 26/371/273
You could purchase this doc online and receive a downloadable copy of it for £3.50 from the National Archives. If you are lucky and the administration is for Martha's husband then there's a good chance she is mentioned as she didn't die for another three years. Here is a link to the entry on TNA website:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7187929
kiterunner
09-10-16, 09:51
There are several public trees on ancestry which have the John Seabrook who died in 1811 as being born in 1740 and marrying a Jane Howes in 1767 at Puttenham. One of them has his wife as Elizabeth Harding. It would be worth checking through the info in those before paying for that admon.
That's interesting, as if the 1811 death belongs to the man who married Jane Howes, he would then be the father of John b Puttenham 1769 and died 1818 without issue.(apparently without issue, that is). I agree it might be worth investigating further if that's not the right line.
I think I am on the wrong tram with this one.
Bert
Gday List,
How can I find out where Hannah Hazell was born,
I think it must have been abt 1796 as that would make her 20 when she married John Seabrook.
Bert
There's nothing on the marriage entry to suggest she was a minor (ie under 21) but she could have been, or might have been several or more years older - we have no other info to help us such as an age et burial etc. At the marriage they have a serial witness, Benjamin Crooks, and another called Rebecca Richardson, but I've not fond a connection between her and John or Hannah at the moment.
kiterunner
09-12-16, 08:28
We found a possible baptism for Hannah in May 1782 at St Faith and St Paul (post #33 on this thread) although we couldn't make out the parents' names (Phoenix thought possibly Richard and Elizabeth). But that one is probably too early.
I'd forgotten about that one.
There are other Ha?el* entries in the same parish that might throw up some clues but I'm just off out now.
kiterunner
09-12-16, 08:44
I've just been looking at those but got nowhere so far. Oops, sorry, I meant the entries in the same parish as the Seabrook / Hazell marriage. Will look at St Faith under St Paul now...
kiterunner
09-12-16, 08:52
Okay, there is a Richard Hazell buried 28 Jan 1784 but I can't read the rest of the entry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1624/31281_A101557-00087/6899782?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb10538%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlmaearlyparish %26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln%3dhaz*l*%2 6gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dfai th%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3 drstp%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3 dBEFYO6YIgAAGWAA7OrM-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
There was a Richard Hazell baptised 17 Jul 1757, born 26 Jun, son of William and Hannah.
kiterunner
09-12-16, 09:04
There is a Richard Hazell marriage to an Arabella Ambler 2 Jul 1781 at St John Horsleydown but they are both "of this parish" and the marriage is by banns. An Arabella Hazel marries a George Brown 16 Sep 1787 at St Mary, Lewisham, but it doesn't say whether she was a widow or spinster on the image which is on Ancestry - obviously not the original marriage record:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_199407-00305/6964953?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
This is getting us nowhere!
This is getting us nowhere!
A piece of very good luck would be needed to discover where Hannah came from!
Gday List Just like to wish you all a very merry Christmas and a happy new year, and thank for all your help this year.
Bert
Thank you Bert :) and the same to you and yours....
Gday List
It has been a long time sine I last wrote.
I am still looking for information on John Seabrook[ Marine] and his first wife Hannah Hazell
Hope you are all still well and kicking Bert
kiterunner
20-10-17, 09:14
Isn't Hannah Hazell supposed to be the mariner's mother, rather than his first wife?
Yes you are quite correct. It seems I wrote my request wrong.
What I meant was,
I am still looking for information on
1 John Seabrook mariner his voyages after 1845 and his death.
2 Anything at all about Hannah Hazell before and after her marriage in 1816 to John Seabrook in St John Hackney. thank you Bert
kiterunner
27-10-17, 19:07
I've looked through the John Seabrook deaths on the online GRO death index from 1848 through to 1861 and none is the right age. But of course it doesn't include deaths at sea.
I have re-read the whole thread to remind myself of everything. Not sure what else we can do at the moment?
kiterunner
27-10-17, 22:23
Okay, there is a Richard Hazell buried 28 Jan 1784 but I can't read the rest of the entry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1624/31281_A101557-00087/6899782?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb10538%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlmaearlyparish %26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln%3dhaz*l*%2 6gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dfai th%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3 drstp%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3 dBEFYO6YIgAAGWAA7OrM-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
There was a Richard Hazell baptised 17 Jul 1757, born 26 Jun, son of William and Hannah.
Returning to that burial entry, I think it says age 26, which would fit with that baptism.
Thanks Merry
,I will plod on this end
Bert
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