Opinions please

[Olde Crone]

I am trying to help a new contact with her Holden tree.

What, if anything, would you deduce from the following burial record?

Burial: 7 Oct 1871 St Stephen, Tockholes, Lancashire, England
James Holden - Son of Elizabeth Holden
Age: 43 yrs
Abode: Tockholes
Buried by: Charles Hughes, Vicar
Register: Burials 1833 - 1882, Page 231, Entry 2801
Source: LDS Film 1595672

OC

[kiterunner]

I wouldn't assume that it meant he was illegitimate unless it was clear from other entries in the same register that this was how this particular register worked. Otherwise it could just mean that his father was deceased but his mother still alive when he died?

[Olde Crone]

Thankyou Kate. I thought it was rather oddly worded (he was married and his wife still alive) and I would have thought his father would have been mentioned as deceased. I wondered if the wording suggested he was a dependent adult.

If this is the same man, he has no father's name on his marriage cert and I think that suggests he is illegitimate. Contact has him "with parents" in the census but I'm sure it isn't the same James Holden.

OC

[Kit]

It could be that the father's name was unknown. Not as in illegitimate but whoever told the minister didn't know as the father was deceased. Mum was either alive or known to the minister or wife or whoever gave the information.

[Merry]

Is this him?

1841:

Low Hills (?) Tockholes, Blackburn, Lancs

Henry Holden 35 farmer Yes
Mary Holden 60 Yes
Betty Holden 30 Yes
James Holden 13 Yes

I would like to think Mary is the widowed mother of Henry and the unmarried Betty (Elizabeth?) and the grandmother of James.

[Olde Crone]

Oh Merry, you are spooky.

Yes, that's the record my contact is claiming. She has also found a baptism, mother Betty - I can't find the baptism so unclear as to whether it mentions any father.

Henry Holden married Betty Horrocks in 1825, Accrington but that doesn't mean the Betty on the 1841 is his wife, she could very well be his sister.

*Blasted James Holdens. Always a nuisance*

OC

I

[Merry]

In 1871 there are (typically!) two Betty Holdens living nextdoor to each other at Peak, Lower Darwen. One lives alone and is 68 and a widow, b Lower Darwen. The other is 69 and has her status altered from widow to unmarried. Here's her household:

1871:

Peak, Lower Darwen, Lancs

Betty Holden head unm 69 bread baker b Livesey, Lancs
Nancy Holden sister unm 67 bread baker b Lower Darwen
Margaret Holden sister (really??!) aged 38! bread baker b Livesey
Joseph Holden son unm 23 cotton weaver b Lower Darwen

[Olde Crone]

Ah, Livesey rings a bell. Off to look...

OC

[Merry]

Hmmm, in 1861 the three bread baking sisters are together only their ages are now 60, 56 and 47! Joseph is with them as well, but this time he is a nephew not a son!! All places of birth match the previously posted 1871 census.

[Merry]

Oooh, in 1851 the three sisters are weaving together:

Betty 48
Nancy 44
Margaret 37

then

John Holden, son of Margaret, 12 (age a bit iffy) power loom weaver b Livesey
Joseph Holden, son of Margaret, 3 b Livesey

So that sorts out who John belongs to. Did Betty have an illegitimate child too?